<p>Lealdragon…where we live, Driver’s Ed, plus 40 hours documented practice time is required to get a driver’s license at age 16. </p>
<p>And after that, we can set our own rules and limitations and have. Also, like AlwaysAMom, I often feel better if I know my own kid is driving herself, then riding with some other teen drivers, overall.</p>
<p>I’m a senior and my mom never lets me ride in a car driven by another teen. So, I ride in my friends’ cars without my mom knowing.</p>
<p>And there ya go. Eli hopeful describes what I contend is a very common occurance. Some parents <em>think</em> their kids don’t drive with others, particularly parents with strict rules, but I suspect many do.</p>
<p>CA seems to be in the lead on this one. Just tightened up the law again:
earner’s Permit - 15 1/2 yrs old for 6 months/40 hrs driving/drivers ed
Driver’s License - 16 yrs old
Limited use - No passenger if passenger is under 20 (even siblings) until driver is 17 yrs old. No driving past 12pm until 5am until 17 yrs old.</p>
<p>When my three started driving, our state (NC) had no restrictions on passengers once the driver had their permanent license (16). Our rule was that they couldn’t ride with anyone who had license less than 1 year and had to have a clean accident/ticket record (live in a fairly small town, so that info gets spread around quickly).</p>
<p>I still get queasy when I remember a wonderful young 16 yo man begging me to let my D. ride home from school with him. He had had his license for 3 months–I forbid it and told him that it had nothing to do with him personally, just his inexperience. Less than a month later, this same boy (talented singer, honor student, church organist, youth choir director) was leaving school with 4 passengers in his car. He got distracted and when someone stopped in front of him, he slammed brakes and went off road into a drainage ditch and then flipped into a tree. The driver and 3 of the passengers were killed less than a mile from the high school. This happened almost 6 years ago and I still cry while typing the story.</p>
<p>Luckily now NC has tightened their laws. No passengers for 6 months after receiving license and may not drive after 9pm. (I believe those are the time frames).</p>
<p>In PA you have to be 16 to get a learner’s permit. After 6 months and 50 hours of driving time you can get a junior license, which allows you to drive alone between 5 AM and 11 PM (no underage passengers). You can’t get a regular license until you’re 17 1/2, and only then if you have a spotless driving record and have passed a driver’s ed course. Otherwise you have to wait until you’re 18.</p>
<p>I’m also in Vermont, like Soozie, and we did not let our daughter drive her friends until after the mandatory six months. We also told her not to be a passenger in a friend’s car until they could drive her legally, because if she did she was helping her friends break the law. I recently learned (from her) that we were the only parents to follow the law in this way, and that other parents couldn’t care less and let their kids break the rules. </p>
<p>Soozie also mentioned the 40 hours of documented driving before getting a license – we were very strict in this, but I am almost positive that many parents lie on the forms so their kids can get their license. My daughter needed every hour of those 40 hours (10 at night) for practice, and it certainly bothers me that other parents lie.</p>
<p>But once a kid has six months of driving, we’re OK with our daughter being driven by a friend – but we live in a place where there is little traffic.</p>
<p>Being a rural state in which many kids learn to drive on farm machinery and in farm vehicles, Kansas allows the issuing of a learner’s permit at 14 and a restricted license at 15 (the teen can drive alone to and from work or school). The official license is issued at 16.</p>
<p>So far, only my oldest son has gotten a restricted license. My oldest D wasn’t particularly interested in driving at a young age and did not receive her license until she was almost 17. My second D will receive her driver’s license on the 31st of this month, and she’s VERY excited! :)</p>
<p>Do I let my kids ride with other teens? Sometimes. We live in a small town. We are one mile away from our high school and the highest speed limit on the way to the school is 30 mph. I do allow my kids to ride to and from school occasionally with kids that I have deemed responsible, though it’s not often necessary as they typically drive themselves to school. </p>
<p>I do not let them drive outside of our small town with any other teenagers with one exception (described below). When I make my decisions as to whether or not to allow my kids to ride with someone, it is not based on the amount of time the other teen has had his license but rather on that child’s driving skills and level of responsibility. </p>
<p>For example, my oldest D’s bf has a family which owns a great deal of farmland. This young man learned to drive VERY early and he is exceedingly mature for an 18-year-old, so I DO let my D ride with him when he goes to visit his family in a neighboring town. It’s impossible to describe this kid’s level of maturity, driving skills, and love and respect for my D well enough to do them justice, but I absolutely trust him with my D. He is the only one, though, who I allow to drive any distance with one of (or any of) my children.</p>
<p>I have known drivers who have had licenses for a long time and who are still HORRIBLE drivers. Frankly, my nearly 16-year-old D is a much better and more experienced driver than her 18-year-old sister! She has been interested in driving for a LONG time and has driven around with me for so long that her skills have become quite excellent. My older D, on the other hand, typically rides with her bf, so she actually has less driving experience.</p>
<p>I will continue to use a case by case method of deciding where, with whom and at what ages my kids will drive. I just don’t think that there is one simple answer to this question. It’s a matter of exercising your very best judgment…and then prayin’! :eek:</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>My S is 19 & just got his license. He’s in no hurry to drive anywhere & won’t have access to a car in LA anyway (don’t believe he’d be comfortable driving there anyway). His friends in college don’t have cars either, so I don’t believe it will be a big issue one way or another. </p>
<p>He doesn’t really like driving much, since he realizes it drains a lot of energy to drive well and agreed with his dad that he’ll never drive when he’s tired. We have let him be driven by friends this past summer, his senior year.</p>
<p>My nephew got his license shortly after turning 16 & is always driving his brother & sister to school every morning & driving football teammates after school. He often drives a van full of teens, but his parents are comfortable with it & so far his driving record is free of traffic tickets (tho he has had at least one or two scrapes on his car where he’s hit stationary objects). He got his license before HI passed the provisional license statute, which applies to drivers under 18. My D is 17 & hasn’t even wanted to get her learner’s permit yet.</p>
<p>I got my license at age 19, just before going off to college in Oregon, mainly to use as ID. I rarely drove at all until 6 years later, when I had graduated college & grad school & was working at my 1st job. I was a pretty scary driver at the time, even with no passengers. Even now, I find it distracting when passengers talk with me when I’m trying to get thru nasty traffic or get into a tight parking space; I prefer my kids not riding with other teens (whether they’re the driver or another teen is the driver). My D’s friends don’t have their licenses & aren’t driving (that I’m aware of), so it hasn’t come up as an issue in our home–many have their permits & have taken driver’s ed.</p>
<p>I’ve mentioned it before, but one way to help ANY driver improve is skid-car training, in which they learn to handle a car in an accident-avoidance situation. Initial driver’s ed courses do not offer this training.</p>
<p>We found a local race-car driving school and put the kids through a lot of high-speed race-driving training, as well as basic driver’s ed. There was the skid-car training (two sessions for my daughter, who asked for a second session), advanced skid-car training (higher speeds and panic braking), “high-performance” driving (they took their own car on the track for the day and were encouraged–with a professional trainer in the passenger seat–to drive VERY fast), and for my son, the three-day race driver class. </p>
<p>It may seem counter-intuitive, but all that high speed training merely made them VERY cautious off the track, because they became aware of the lack of training of other drivers AND aware of how little safety equipment is present on the average highway. </p>
<p>The accident avoidance training came in handy quite early on, when I was in the car when my son safely and calmly managed a nasty skid on wet leaves, and a little later when my daughter safely got to the side of the road when a series of near-accidents happened around her. She followed her training, focused on a escape path instead of the cars, avoided an accident, then drove to the nearest restaurant and called me to come get her (she didn’t want to drive anymore for a while–too scary).</p>
<p>My H, who enjoys driving a performance vehicle on a track, as well as “ice racing” (an anomaly in NE this winter), has done some of what Dmd describes with our son. Learning to anticipate is one of the hardest parts of driving, and ice, slippery conditions, unexpected circumstances, etc. are not a part of driver’s ed. </p>
<p>Even with all that extra instruction, one still worries. Heck, I worry about anyone I care about driving, since no one is ever entirely safe in a car. I learned that when a friend of mine’s mother was killed when friend was ten years old. And the mother wasn’t out joyriding, but hit broadside by a drunk driver. No way on earth to prepare for that, no matter what your age. </p>
<p>So, I provide sensible, not prohibitive precautions, since I refuse to limit my or my children’s life or experiences out of fear.</p>
<p>Booklady,</p>
<p>I don’t think that’s the case unless it’s about to be changed. Here’s what I am finding in the current PA driver’s manual. My D is taking her driving test in a couple of weeks, and all the kids around here can drive their friends around with only a junior license (unfortunately). Could it be that this is a law that will be phased in soon but that is not in place yet? </p>
<p>Junior Permit Information
Your learners permit will be valid for one (1) year from the issue date printed on your initial Learner?s
Permit. During this time there are certain limitations on your driving privilege if your are less than 18
years of age. They are:
You may only drive under the supervision of a driver licensed in Pennsylvania who is at least 21 years
of age or a spouse, guardian, or parent who is at least 18 years of age. The supervising driver must sit
in the front passenger seat.
You may not drive between the hours of 11:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. unless your spouse, guardian or
parent who is a driver licensed in Pennsylvania and is at least 18 years of age is with you.
You may not carry more passengers than seat belts available in the vehicle you are driving.</p>
<p>Junior Driver License Information
Like the junior learner?s permit, there are some limitations to the junior driver?s license. They are:
You may not drive between the hours of 11:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. unless your spouse, guardian or
parent who is a driver licensed in Pennsylvania and is at least 18 years of age is with you.
However, you may drive between 11:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. if you are involved in public or charitable
service, a member of a volunteer fire company or employed during those hours. In these cases, you
must carry a notarized affidavit or certificate of authorization from your employer, supervisor or fire chief
indicating your probable schedule of activities. This notarized affidavit should be kept with your license.
You may not carry more passengers than seat belts available in the vehicle you are driving.</p>
<p>Edit - Oh, I see now why it might be confusing - with a junior license you need an adult with you if driving <em>after</em> 11PM. Passengers can be any age before then, and no need for supervision.</p>
<p>Lealdragon, back on page 1, you asked who to report reckless driving to. The answer is, report it to the local police or sheriff’s office, whatever the jurisdiction is where the bad driving took place. My daughter was driving (with me supervising) to school one morning and a fellow student tailgated us much of the way, then zoomed past us on a downhill curve, going into the oncoming lane to do so. He then ran a red light, and made his way to the school parking lot. He’d driven in similar reckless ways before, but this was over the top. It wasn’t someone she knew, but we happened to be driving the same route at the same time most mornings as this fool, and the car was quite distinctive. The school has a city police officer there most of the time, and I saw his car in the parking lot and tracked him down. I gave him the details of what happened and the license number of the car, and he went off to have a talk with the boy. We still see him driving in the mornings, but he doesn’t seem to be <em>quite</em> so aggressive a driver these days.</p>
<p>Thanks, moom. That’s a good plan if I actually see it happen. In this case, I was not present. My son was in the car and told me about it the next day. (He no longer rides with that friend because of it.) He supposedly still drives like that, but my son is not really hanging around him anymore. So I would assume it’s too late to tell anyone, right?</p>
<p>“We live in a small town. We are one mile away from our high school and the highest speed limit on the way to the school is 30 mph.”</p>
<p>I would not mind him riding with other teens if we lived in a small town. It is the 70 mph highway driving that I am concerned about. Wrecks at 30-40 mph are not AS likely to be fatal.</p>
<p>lealdragon, I think it would help to have an actual date and time when something happened, preferably recent. But perhaps your local law enforcement would be willing to have a Stern Chat if your son recounted what happened to him.</p>
<p>Thanks. I think too much time has elapsed. If I hear of another incident, I will report it.</p>
<p>lealdragon, you’re right of course that the faster the speed the more likely there will be fatalities. However, the fatal accident I recounted earlier was in a 40 mph zone. They had only driven about 1/4 mile from a complete stop at a traffic light.</p>
<p>
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<p>A few years back two kids in our town were killed on their way to school. It was a 30 mile an hour zone, they were nowhere near an intersection, it was not a particularly curvey piece of road, the weather was fine. They just slammed into a tree. Speeding? Distraction? both?</p>
<p>mathmom~</p>
<p>Yes, there are always stories like that, and I do realize that it is a calculated risk whenever you let your child get into a car…either with another teen or with you. The route to our high school involves basically an “L”…the kids drive to the end of our street, make a left and then it’s a straight shot down a residential street to the school–no trees. </p>
<p>A year ago this month, the mother of one of my D2’s friends was killed in a head-on collision by a man exiting a bar (he was so drunk that he turned southbound into the northbound lanes of a divided highway). This car was driven by a very responsible parent. </p>
<p>Car accidents happen. They are a VERY unfortunate part of life…and one which affects countless people, both adults and young people. All any of us can do is to act according to our best judgment, and that is what I do. I pray each day that I don’t judge wrongly–and that some random horrible event doesn’t befall my children.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>