I usually ask that we pray. But given that the youth of my family have not taken to believen in God, I ask that we be thankful for how blessed we are
If you do not believe, not t sure who we are being thankful to or why.
Thanksgiving isn’t a (modern day) religious holiday.
What am I thankful for?
My family that loves me unconditionally.
My life partner who keeps me whole.
The doctors and nurses who have saved my life more than once.
The people who have and will continue to put their lives on the line so I can eat my meal in peace.
The teachers who pushed me to achieve.
The list goes on and on and on. What a strange statement. I don’t even know religious people who would ask who people are thankful to.
I’m an atheist. DW grew up a “cultural” Christian. We do nothing at meals, even holiday meals. When we did Thanksgiving or Easter at her aunt and uncle’s house, they did a short blessing. I will hold hands because I think that symbolizes fellowship and I’m all for that.
I do not bow my head. Ever. And if its a recitation kind of prayer, even when I know the words, I don’t recite. (I went to summer camp and boarding school; I know a lot of prayers.)
I don’t want to act like a hypocrite, but I also have this idea that it would be disrespectful to misrepresent my true feelings. Same way you don’t pretend to take communion.
So that’s a decision i made quite consciously many years ago. I think it freaked people out to see a kid sitting up straight during prayer, but so far as I can tell no one notices these days. Maybe a few people. Idk
FWIW, I also don’t say the Pledge of Allegiance. And I think I’m very lucky to live in a country where I don’t have to.
“If you do not believe, not t sure who we are being thankful to or why.”
Like Romani, I don’t understand this. Why must I be thankful to a higher being to be thankful for friends / family / plentiful food / etc.? I mean, one can be, of course, and that’s great, but it’s not a requirement of being thankful.
I think it is pretty acknowledged that the amen is what signifies assent. I wouldn’t say amen to something in Jesus’ name, but if it were something generic offered like “peace on earth,” a hearty amen to that! To me, holding hands is more akin to fellowship, not prayer. Its kind of like in a church service where you shake hands with your neighbor and say peace be with you, or you stand when the congregation stands - you do that even if you aren’t a member because it’s just polite.
Out of curiosity, what would you have done differently with advance warning? Not held hands, or just not been surprised?
We’re practicing Catholics. We say Grace before dinner every night, including Thanksgiving.
We do the Bless us O’ Lord prayer at Thanksgiving and at every meal at the in-laws. I like it as it seems to give us a center and a momentary calm before grabbing food. We also say a small prayer to keep everyone safe while traveling and to remember those who didn’t make it to dinner.
Somehow what popped into my head was something from childhood - “rub a dub dub, thanks for the grub; yay g*d”.
Probably not appropriate…
Prayer, with a bit of humor from my dad, was our tradition. He used to sing,
Be present at our table, Lord;
Be here and everywhere adored;
Thy creatures bless, and grant that we
May feast in paradise with Thee.
to the tune of some snappy old commercial jingle from the 50s. I know the tune, but I can’t think of the product (maybe toothpaste or after-shave).
He’ll be feasting in paradise this year, so we’ll have to find someone to carry on.
I don’t believe and there are lots of things I’m thankful for.
I don’t get my knickers in a knot when someone says Jesus in a prayer (cant remember if FIL did when they hosted holiday dinners, but my inlaws are pretty religious, highly likely. ) I just ignore it like I do the rest of the prayer. I sit politely and keep my mouth shut. Hearing the word Jesus or others praising him isn’t going to convert me.
We are all atheists or agnostic. When we had Thanksgiving in our house, no grace or prayers. If we are celebrating at the homes of DH’s family, who are devout, we follow the tradition of the home. Sometimes, we are asked to join hands, and “Jesus, Our Lord” is almost always invoked. I can’t get too worked up about the host blessing the dinner in the manner of their own religion, especially when we know they follow it. Sure, the host should take the guests into consideration but the host should be able to follow their own traditions within their own home.
I’m confused why it’s disrespectful behavior for a Christian to pray in Jesus’ name in his own home because there is a Jewish person present. I really don’t understand that.
If I were a guest at a person’s home who was X religion that I am not a believer in, and they say a prayer which is contrary to my own beliefs, I still wouldn’t view that as remotely disrespectful or rude. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what happened.
For me (an atheist) it depends on the actual prayer. Sometimes the prayers make me feel that the praying person is attempting to pray in my name, which is a bit annoying. I don’t mind so much if they are praying for something I agree with, but someone praying in my name for something I don’t even want makes me mad.
So for example, “Lord Jesus, we pray that you bring wisdom to our leaders,” is one thing-- irritating, because I’m not part of “we,” but nothing much. OTOH, “As we sit around the table, Jesus, we beseech you to stop gays from getting married,” is quite another thing. Pray, if you want to, but don’t put words in my mouth.
We say the typical Catholic grace prayer except in mixed-faith settings, Not right to make others uncomfortable.
“As we sit around the table, Jesus, we beseech you to stop gays from getting married,” is quite another thing."
I bet you’d equally object to “As we gather here on Thanksgiving, let us hope that we are able to stop the scourge of gays getting married” (with no mention of God, Jesus or any higher being!).
I would, and for exactly the same reason. I’d be thinking, whaddaya mean “we”? I don’t care about other people having religious beliefs, but I object to them putting words in my mouth. You (generic you, not Pizzagirl) may worship and venerate the Lord, but I don’t, so don’t say “we worship and adore you, Lord,” when you’re sitting around a table with some people who don’t share your religious beliefs.
I really don’t have a shred of class. I’d get up, get my things, and leave if something like that was said (about gay people) by my hosts… Regardless of religious affiliation.
I have enough friends who would welcome me in last minute. No need for that kind of negativity in my holiday (or life in general).
It’s absolutely not disrespectful for a Christian to do that. What I think is disrespectful is for someone who’s known me for 30+ years, who knows how I feel about such things, and who knows about my family history (including my mother’s history, even though my mother died before she joined the family), asking me to join hands without warning me that the prayer is going to refer to “Jesus Christ our Lord.” Especially given that in the entire time I’ve known her, she had never given a single remote indication before that she’s still a practicing Catholic in any way. And given that – which I didn’t even remember when I wrote about this earlier in the thread – my son and I were up there two years earlier, when my first cousin’s (her husband’s) mother, my Aunt M., who always identified as a Jew, was still alive and present, and there was absolutely no mention of Jesus Christ; yes, we joined hands, but the prayer was non-denominational. Which was one of the reasons I was so surprised last year. All of which makes me think that she was willing to respect her mother-in-law’s sensibilities as long as she was alive, and only introduced the Christian element to the prayer after she died, perhaps because her own mother and brother and sister-in-law (all of whom, I gather, are practicing Catholics) were present.
So, yes, she could have warned me. Especially because having a Thanksgiving celebration with my family and my cousins’ family has been a tradition in our families since about 1951, well before I was born, when my uncle and aunt first bought their house in Long Island and my father and mother started going there. And continued thereafter until my uncle and aunt finally gave up the house about four years ago. (There’s a photo of me at the age of 21 months and my cousin a year older, sitting together in that house one Thanksgiving.) And even before 1951, it had been a family tradition at my grandparents’ house in Crestwood in Yonkers, where my father and uncle grew up. A Jewish family tradition, at least until my uncle’s and aunt’s three children all married Gentiles. And even after that, everything was always completely non-denominational. So I guess I feel that introducing a specifically Christian element to that tradition, without warning, was especially shocking. (And constituted a somewhat bittersweet reminder to me of the disappearance of Jewish identity from that part of my family, but that’s another contentious topic, as a recent thread on intermarriage demonstrates!)
In answer to another question, what would I have done if I had been warned? I probably would have joined hands (out of respect for the occasion) and then quietly disengaged my hands early on in the prayer, well before the end. And yes, I’m not stupid; I’m well aware that having my hands joined at the moment that name was uttered wouldn’t turn me into a Christian or result in my being struck by lightning. It’s all a matter of symbolism, and I’m entitled to view holding hands to the end of a specifically Christian prayer, even if I don’t utter “amen,” as having a symbolism in which I don’t choose to participate. I’m sure most of you know that Orthodox Jews aren’t permitted even to enter a Christian church for any reason. Do you tell them to get over it, and that they won’t be struck by lightning? I’m sure they already know that. And by they way, I’ve been in Christian churches for weddings and funerals, and although I stand when the congregation does, because that doesn’t have symbolic meaning to me, I certainly don’t kneel when the congregation does. Because that does have symbolic meaning to me. (I don’t kneel to anyone!) And nobody should be telling me that I should abandon my convictions, or my own beliefs on what has symbolic meaning, for the sake of “politeness.”
All she had to do was warn me. But it obviously didn’t occur to her. And I was disappointed, because I’ve always liked her a lot, and she’s always been kind to me, including after the events of a decade ago.
That is incorrect, Donna. Orthodox Jews have been in several Episcopal churches at functions I’ve attended. These have included multi-faith talks and also some funerals.
MOWC, I should have clarified by saying that – like most things with Judaism – it all depends on how Orthodox, or what kind of Orthodox, you are! But traditionally, it is indeed the case that there’s a prohibition on entering churches, mosques, etc. See http://www.thejc.com/judaism/rabbi-i-have-a-problem/is-it-forbidden-jews-enter-a-church; http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Judaism/May-a-Jew-enter-a-non-Jewish-house-of-worship; https://www.quora.com/Why-are-Jews-prohibited-by-rabbinic-law-from-entering-churches-Why-are-Jews-allowed-to-enter-mosques. So what I said is not incorrect as a generalization, although – as I said, like most things Jewish – there are exceptions.