Do You Shop at Wal-Mart?

martharap · February 22, 2013, 8:43pm

Thumper,

The 1/2 pound packages of Cabot Extra Sharp cheddar cost between $2.08 and $2.38–at Walmart, lately the latter. The larger 2 pound junks are cheaper per pound. In my grocery store they charge $4.99 for the 1/2 pound package!

lamom · February 22, 2013, 8:44pm

No. Don’t like the place. One is just up the block from work. I used to buy birthday cakes whenever one of the pharmacy staff had a bd. I stopped last year, too much crime in the city where I work. I said sorry no more birthday cakes from me. Too many muggings.

H did get iPhone 5 there in December. He said it was huge, dirty and he didn’t want to go back.

HImom · February 22, 2013, 9:39pm

Sometimes go there as they have some merchandise other stores don’t, like bras for thin females. It’s often a last resort for me.

Did use their iPhone 5 ad to get Best Buy to price match–WalMart in our state didn’t have the phone available for Sprint–BestBuy did. In general don’t like the low quality of their merchandise.

sryrstress · February 22, 2013, 10:11pm

Minutes away and miles away are the same thing where I live. H does 90%+ of our shopping and he goes to Walmart at least weekly. That and Krogers are the only two choices and he knows exactly what is cheaper where. Almost all is cheaper at WM but the meat is better at Krogers.

We got a new WM last year–greatly downsized from their original plans. The whole town was abuzz and excited for an entire year. Now everyone’s so disappointed. Our employees there are very long term–lots of them there for the ~15+ year duration. They are helpful and friendly. I too have noticed they’ve dropped the variety of an specific product.

I do think Targets are nicer inside but I’m shopping on product price, not paying for an experience. Toilet paper is toilet paper. In my area I don’t believe Walmart pays any less than other retail establishments and I’d guess they have better benefits than the little mom and pop outfits. Irrelevant anyway because Target is an hour away.

Yes, we do drive slightly longer the other direction for a bigger and better Walmart :)

musiclover55 · February 22, 2013, 10:37pm

Yes I do.
Don’t get what the big deal is and why some people act “snobbish” towards Wal-mart, but whatever floats their boat…

scubasue · February 22, 2013, 11:15pm

Walmart doesn’t need to raise their prices to pay their employees better.

I don’t shop at Walmart because they have a business model that forces us taxpayers to subsidize their employees.

Have you seen how many billions Walmart and the Walton family make every year? Before Sam Walton split up his fortune amongst his children, he was the richest man in the world, with a ridiculously high annual income.

But, Walmart pays its employees so poorly, and/or limits their hours enough so that a disproportionate number of them qualify for public assistance, which means that taxpayers are paying for benefits for employees of Walmart so that the corporation and the CEOs don’t have to use profits to do so.

And, for the privilege of paying for food stamps, Medicaid, Section 8, etc for Walmart employees, what do we get? Oh, yeah…all the jobs shipped to India, Asia and Mexico.

BCEagle91 · February 22, 2013, 11:51pm

Have you analyzed their corporate finances?

Well, their employees wouldn’t have jobs otherwise. Would you rather they have jobs with a subsidy or no jobs at all?

WalMart made $16.59 billion last year. Pretty small next to Apple at $41.75 billion. Anyone complaining about Apple? WalMart is a large organization with a lot of employees and a lot of shareholders. Those shareholders expect a return in their investment. Warren Buffet’s Berkshire Hathaway is the third largest institutional shareholder of WalMart. Why does he own it? Probably because it pays out $1.88 in dividends per share. The top institutional holder of WalMart is The Vanguard Group. They hold a lot of shares in their Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund, Vanguard 500 Index Fund, Vanguard Institutional Index Fund, SPDR S&P 500 ETF Fund, Vanguard Specialized Dividend Appreciation Index Fund ang Growth Index Fund. I’m sure that there are lots of public and private pension fund that hold WalMart as they need decent returns to pay out their current and future obligations.

Jim Walton holds 10.5 million shares. That’s $21 million in dividends for last year.

I don’t see any transparancy into any other members of the Walton family. How do you know what the family makes off WalMart stock every year?

And the problem with that is …

Taxpayers are paying for people that don’t work at all. Are they paying more or less for WalMart employees?

Like it or not, we live in a global economy. You have to do your job more efficiently and effectively than people in countries that you’re competing with. The US has natural advantages and disadvantages.

emeraldkity4 · February 23, 2013, 12:10am

I come from a blue collar family, but I was taught that it was much more expensive in the long run to buy cheap. “Use it up, wear it out, make do or do without”.
When things are tight we’ve gone to consignment stores, Value Village or even garage sales, but not Walmart.
Many things can also be fixed, altered, mended or repurposed especially when they were well made in the first place.
It’s not just frugal not to waste money on what you don’t need, it makes environmental sense.

scubasue · February 23, 2013, 12:14am

Study after study after study has shown that it’s a myth that Walmart’s prices are cheaper than other stores. They might be cheaper on certain products, but overall they are not.

So, other stores with same or better prices pay their employees better. What’s different is that the corporation and CEOs aren’t pocketing the same billions in profits at taxpayer expense.

“Taxpayers are paying for people that don’t work at all. Are they paying more or less for WalMart employees?”

Walmart employees are the largest group of recipients of welfare–Medicaid and food stamps both.

“And the problem with that is …”

The problem with that is my husband and I are paying part of his employees benefits.

Finally, as to where would the employees work…where did people work before Walmart? That question makes no sense to me. If we all shopped at Costco or Target, or our local stores instead, increased business in those stores would create demand for the current Walmart employees. Plus, they’d have a better chance at earning a self-sufficient wage AND be able to pump more money into the economy.

BCEagle91 · February 23, 2013, 12:33am

Care to cite a few?

Care to cite a few? With the same size, customer base and products?

Well, that’s an interesting non-answer.

I’m sure that you’re paying part of my employer-provided tax breaks too. Maybe someone else is paying for your federal tax breaks.

Enough of us shopping at Costco is laughable. Their revenues aren’t even 1% of WalMarts. They apparently target a much different demographic than does WalMart.

I had a look at Target - revenue of $72 billion. Closer but still pretty small compared to WalMart. Target stores tend to be a little nicer, and I find a bit more expensive. They have a higher operating margins so it appears that they are efficient in their markets. I didn’t see any profit growth between 2011 and 2012 though so perhaps they aren’t growing.

You can do the business analysis too - there’s a moderate amount of public financial information out there and you can look at what companies are doing, whether or not they are growing, what kinds of profits they’re making, etc. Does Target treat their employees differently? I don’t know. I don’t invest in these kinds of companies but it’s simple to do a little research on them to see whether what other people are saying make any sense.

From Glassdoor on Target:

Pros - friendly and helpful staff, employee discount, opportunity to meet all types of people, flexible hours, and potential advancement opportunities within Target

Cons - low starting salary, must wait 90 days before applying for an open position, no benefits, no guaranteed hours, schedule varies greatly from week to week

Pros - My co-workers are extremely nice and helpful, they appreciate your hard work and make frequent announcements if supervisors notice (which is often), just a great place to work

Cons - I wish the pay was higher and the hours were more consistent instead of all over the place. If those things could be, working here would literally be perfect.

Pros - co-workers, employee programs, fun, friendly

Cons - pay, management, policies, organization, management tends ot to listen to employees

Pros - Target provides great salary and benefits. Opportunity for advancement is there as long as you have a four-year degree. Mentoring is second-to-none. Top performers are rewarded while poor performers are handled appropriately. I really enjoyed my time there.

Cons - Work schedule can brutal at times resulting in poor work/life balance. Corporate office makes a lot of decisions based more on bottom line than for the long-term effect on the company.

[Target</a> Reviews | Glassdoor](<a href=“http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Target-Reviews-E194.htm]Target”>http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Target-Reviews-E194.htm)

It sounds like people like a lot of aspects of working at Target but they still do appear to have some of the workplace issues of retail. They higher profit margin may make it a little easier for them to pay better.

samiamy · February 23, 2013, 12:34am

Goetz, Stephan J.; Hema Swaminathan (October 18, 2004). “Wal-Mart and County-Wide Poverty”. Pennsylvania State University.

We find, after controlling for other factors determining changes in the poverty rate over time,
that both counties with more initial (1987) Wal-Mart stores and with more additions of stores
between 1987 and 1998 experienced greater increases (or smaller decreases) in family poverty
rates during the 1990s economic boom period

samiamy · February 23, 2013, 12:51am

Wal-Mart `Eats’ More
U.S. Manufacturers

[Wal-Mart</a> ‘Eats’ More U.S. Manufacturers](<a href=“http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3046wal-mart_pricing.html]Wal-Mart”>Wal-Mart 'Eats' More U.S. Manufacturers)

Textile and Apparel, and Food Sectors

No company is safe from Wal-Mart’s unswerving assault, but particularly at risk are manufacturing concerns in the textile and apparel sector, and in the food sector.

Wal-Mart has ravaged companies by leveraging its enormous sales power, and its access to products produced by slave-labor, to make suppliers follow its pricing decisions. If the supplier company doesn’t sell its goods at the price Wal-Mart sets, Wal-Mart denies them shelf space at its stores, which destroys that company. However, even when a supplier meets Wal-Mart’s prices, the prices are so low, and the supplier loses so much money, that the supplier is forced into bankruptcy. Wal-Mart’s 2002 sales of $244.5 billion were larger than the sales of Sears, Target, J.C. Penny, K-Mart, Safeway, and Kroger

The situation has become so outrageous, that it is drawing international attention. On Nov. 19, the Observer of London carried an article on the destruction of the City of Buffalo, New York, mentioning the role of Wal-Mart. The article tells the story of Buffalo Color, a manufacturing plant where indigo dye for denim was produced. Once employing 3,000 workers, Buffalo Color lost business to plants established in China, which produce the indigo dye at half the cost that Buffalo Color does. The indigo dye is used to color the denim, most of which is used in clothing, and Wal-Mart has driven down the price it will pay for clothing, and thus all its constituent ingredients must be cheaper. Buffalo Color now employs 12 people, and functions strictly as a resale operation. The article also reports on the Made in the USA group, which consists of many small- and medium-sized manufacturers, whose chairman states that its primary enemy is Wal-Mart.

BCEagle91 · February 23, 2013, 1:00am

I read the entire paper and will grant their findings. I had a look at another paper which was essentially a review of the literature with a larger scope and found the summary below. The article has the appropriate citations for its reasoning.

Net impacts: In summary, consumers have benefited from Wal-Mart’s tremendous cost efficiencies in the form of greatly reduced retail prices, which generate substantial savings to U.S. consumers annually. However, evidence also shows that Wal-Mart does not bear the full economic and social costs of its business practices. As a result, the benefits and costs are unevenly distributed across individuals. Those who are employed in non-retail sectors of the economy reap substantial benefits from lower prices and absorb some of the potential costs if tax revenues are needed to cover increased social costs. Those employed in the retail sector absorb the additional cost of lower wages, fewer benefits and a potentially shrinking employment base.

[Choices</a> Article - Wall Street vs. Main Street: What are the Benefits and Costs of Wal-Mart to Local Communities?](<a href=“http://www.choicesmagazine.org/2006-2/grabbag/2006-2-14.htm]Choices”>Choices Article - Wall Street vs. Main Street: What are the Benefits and Costs of Wal-Mart to Local Communities?)

Seahorsesrock · February 23, 2013, 1:02am

Hate Walmart. Will never shop there. So many reasons. Intersting story today re Walmart and their “charitable” giving

Yuck! They are the fast food of retail.

BCEagle91 · February 23, 2013, 1:10am

Not sure whether or not you realize it but your articles are ten years old. A lot has changed in clothing retailing in the last ten year.

I generally prefer to buy certain types of clothes at TJ Maxx stores (Marshalls and Home Goods). Their stock price is up 350% over the last decade. There are a lot of other retail shops that are doing quite well despite competing with WalMart. Businesses are static - they respond to competition or they go out of business.

Simon Property Group is the largest US Mall operator. You’d think that WalMart would be killing SPG with their low prices but SPG is up 400% over the last decade. In contrast, WalMart is only up about 50% over the last decade. We had two WalMarts move into our area many years ago. We’ve had a wide variety of retail stores open since then (100 in our town alone last year) and the amount of traffic that I have to deal with near the malls tells me that WalMart isn’t killing other retailers.

BCEagle91 · February 23, 2013, 1:12am

I thought that this was interesting:

Warren Buffett owns 46,708,142 shares of WMT, valued as $3.3 billion as of June 30, 2012, which accounts for 4.4% of his equity portfolio. George Soros owns 4,831,800 shares of WMT, valued as $337 million as of June 30, 2012, which accounts for 4.9% of his equity portfolio.

[Top</a> 5 Stocks George Soros and Warren Buffett Both Own - Forbes](<a href=“http://www.forbes.com/sites/gurufocus/2012/08/29/top-5-stocks-george-soros-and-warren-buffett-both-own/]Top”>Top 5 Stocks George Soros and Warren Buffett Both Own)

scubasue · February 23, 2013, 1:15am

[The</a> Wal-Mart debate: A false choice between prices and wages | Economic Policy Institute](<a href=“http://www.epi.org/publication/ib223/]The”>The Wal-Mart debate: A false choice between prices and wages | Economic Policy Institute)

<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?;

So, other stores with same or better prices pay their employees

Why does that matter? What matters is that regardless of the size and customer base, I am not paying for subsidizing their employees basic living costs to the extent that I am doing so for Walmart employees–even though I don’t shop there.

Regarding your quotes from Target employees and their comments about their pay. I’d say way over half of my friends, many of whom are making low-six figure incomes complain about low wages. Those quotes don’t mean that Target wages are as low as Walmart wages.

You missed the point. Of course their revenues are smaller than Walmarts–they have fewer stores and fewer customers. My point is that if shoppers created the demand elsewhere, Costco (or other retailers) would respond with the supply.

Huh? I’m not talking about paying for their tax breaks. I am talking about taxpayers footing the bill for their GROCERIES, RENT, and HEALTHCARE, preschool, etc.------expenses that most of us are able to pay for out of our own wages.

BCEagle91 · February 23, 2013, 1:23am

“Wal-Mart could raise wages and benefits significantly without raising prices, yet still earn a healthy profit. For example, while still maintaining a profit margin almost 50% greater than Costco, a key competitor, Wal-Mart could have raised the wages and benefits of each of its non-supervisory employees in 2005 by more than $2,000 without raising prices a penny.”

Costco and WalMart are in different markets. This is why we don’t see Costco growing like mad. Investors like Warren Buffet and George Soros are heavy investors in WalMart. What are their holdings in Costco?

samiamy · February 23, 2013, 1:25am

Free cell phones as well.

A local hospital has adopted Walmart under cutting hours to eliminate benefits model(ie working poor)

All are eligible for Healthy NY medicaid plan. So, they are working, but on medicaid, food stamps, free cell phone LIHEAP(low income heating assistance)

They are paid about 10 an hour, 20 hours a week under the poverty level income wise. Fully qualified for all levels of assistance, yet they are working.

Yes I realize the article was 10 years old.
Perhaps looking at Walmart etc from an investment portfolio addition changes how it is favored, I am not a share holder. I just pay an enormous amount of taxes.

Personal choice, I don’t agree with it

BCEagle91 · February 23, 2013, 1:28am

Well, we all pay for collective group actions if they result in costs.

I really don’t know what the wages are at retails stores - do you have evidence that Target pays more than WalMart?

Why do you think that shoppers aren’t creating the demand? Maybe it has something to do with the membership fee?

Same thing on a government budget.

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