<p>Let’s be honest here, not every one can be a scientist, engineer, software engineer, mathematician. I mean, not everyone is cut out for it. So, with that in mind, I know a lot of kids who choose to major in engineering, “pre med”, computer science, chemistry and other related majors. However, I am not sure if they are cut out for it. Regardless of grades, one needs the “knack” to do well in engineering. However, there seems to be an overwhelming push for kids to pursue STEM fields. Many of them are pulled by the job prospects, money and pressure from parents. The drop out rate for engineering students range from 30% to 70% in some institutions ([Do</a> engineering majors have the highest dropout rate?](<a href=“Do engineering majors have the highest dropout rate? | Ars Technica”>Do engineering majors have the highest dropout rate? | Ars Technica))</p>
<p>David…in my opinion kids should choose their OWN majors…and no one should push them in any direction.</p>
<p>Getting a degree in a STEM field does NOT guarantee that the person will get a job in a STEM field.</p>
<p>I guess I don’t see people pushing their kids into anything, but hs kids that are good at math and science are often encouraged to major in STEM. DS assumed that he would major in engineering, but that ended when he took an engineering elective class in high school (PLTW). If he hadn’t actually had real experience, I think he would be one of those drop outs. Engineering is a degree that most don’t really understand until they are studying it. Same thing happens to higher level math, biology and chemistry. </p>
<p>I have no idea if DS will end up in STEM, but he is starting as one next year. I do think our country needs more people interested in STEM that have the drive an ability to create the industries of the future, but those future industries will then need the non-STEM types as well.</p>
<p>I don’t agree that STEM careers are necessarily something that we are born being “cut” out for although innate ability is certainly part of it. I do think that parents should be “pushing” for better STEM education beginning in the early school yrs. Then, perhaps we would turn out more students who are not only better prepared for, but also more interested in pursuing, STEM careers.</p>
<p>It is not often not that hard to go from STEM to non-STEM fields, but harder to go in the reverse direction. Thus, it might make sense to encourage kids who are potentially inclined in that direction to make sure they are taking some of the basic classes. But, I wouldn’t push as doing the highest quality work in college probably comes more from intrinsic motivation than from a desire to please others.</p>
<p>I suggested that my son that he take a science course freshman year (as a dyslexic kid who is very bright and good at math, I thought chemistry or physics science might be an easier major for him than majors that require a lot of reading). Although he seemed quite gifted in chemistry, he said he was more interested in social science. But, I suggested that he take a math/stats/applied math course every semester, and he has taken one or two each semester on top of the econ track for people who are good at math. Now, if he applies to grad school in economics, he’ll look pretty strong as a double major with math. And if he doesn’t apply to grad schools, he has marketable skills.</p>
<p>To be quite frank…NO!</p>
<p>Unless someone is not only passionate about STEM subject fields, but also genuinely willing to like and accept the pros and cons of the potential career paths…here are some following pitfalls:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>They find their actual talents and interests lay elsewhere and they end up being part of the 30%-70%+ who are weeded out of intro STEM courses with crappy/failing grades to show for it. </p></li>
<li><p>They survive the weedout, but their level of academic ability and work-ethic is such they graduate with depressed GPAs which kill off any chances of med school or many other formerly promising post-college career/grad school options. </p></li>
<li><p>Arguably worse…their academic ability and work ethic is so good they graduate with flying colors and they go off into pharmacy, engineering, computer programming/IT, and med school/become MDs…and find the careers fell far short of what their parents/other adults/college advice pundits promised* and/or they find they don’t like/HATE their career paths…and yet feel trapped because of the huge “sunk cost” of their education and fears of “status loss” due to feelings they’d have to start over because their education was “too narrow”. </p></li>
</ol>
<ul>
<li>I.e. Engineering/CS careers are far from stable…especially with increasing outsourcing trends and some incidents of age discrimination once one reaches the age of 40, pay rates plateau after the first few years, and many endure long periods of un/underemployment due to boom/bust cycles. Vast majority of declared pre-meds never make it to med school and for those that do…it is a long, expensive, and arduous road…especially considering the insane workweeks medical interns/residents and doctors pull…it’s worse than what lawyers at biglaw firms and IBankers pull judging by my 3 MD intern/resident roomies. Pharmacy can be quite tedious/dull, long-hours, and is becoming increasingly less stable/secure from what I heard from a former date/friends in that field.</li>
</ul>
<p>Of course it’s a dumb idea. It’s not the parents’ life, it’s the child’s.</p>
<p>The question I ask myself if I am capable of getting a high GPA in college. So, I have stated many times before, my WEIGHTED GPA is a 3.188 as a Senior in HS. Passion for CS and engineering, I definitely have. Perhaps, this is just my fear of failure getting to me, but will I survive college? I can definitely tell you that I have the “knack” referenced in the Dilbert cartoon. That statement is supported by the fact that I’ve been programming since I was 11. C++ was my first language, but currently, due to school, I am mainly programming in java.</p>
<p>Sometimes, I feel as if I do not know anything. Sometimes I ask why in the world I am going to college as a CS and/or EE major. Why? Is it really passion? Sometimes, it does not feel like passion. It just feels like that since I have been doing for a long time, it just become a habit or something. Sometimes, I feel so incapable. Other times, it just feels like a burden since everyone knows how fantastic I am at programming. Sometimes, I just feel like buying a potter’s wheel and moving out to the woods just making ceramics. Certainly, no one sees me as an artist. Programming is just “me”. Sometimes, I get tired of being “myself”.</p>
<p>To be honest, my parents never pushed me toward anything since I would always push them out. They learned early on that I like making my own choices.</p>
<p>As we move into a global economy we “need” more STEM majors when we can hire them cheaper from foreign countries. Seems like they’re willing to do the work for the meh pay. If engineers ( and other STEM majors) were payed more ( stop recruiting overseas) kids would be willing to put in the effort. I don’t think we as a country are willing to do that. After all, the 1% need to make their money somehow.</p>
<p>“It is not often not that hard to go from STEM to non-STEM fields, but harder to go in the reverse direction. Thus, it might make sense to encourage kids who are potentially inclined in that direction to make sure they are taking some of the basic classes.” </p>
<p>True statements. For that reason, I’ve often suggested that students try engineering if on the fence. But the caveat that I’ve learned through reading her on CC is that some colleges have a GPA minimum to transfer between schools. It would be better to avoid that situation if thinking of non-Engineering as Plan B. It’s typical even for thriving engineering students to have a low GPA the first semester.</p>
<p>I would never push a kid of mine into any major - certainly not one that I thought they had no particular aptitude for. I do think many girls (in high school especially) need to be encouraged not to close doors because they don’t take enough math and science. (This was far more true in my day than it is now.) There are plenty of women in biology, but still not nearly enough in the other sciences.</p>
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<p>Men in biology are also plentiful. Biology is the most popular STEM major; perhaps as a result, the job and career prospects after graduating with a biology degree is not very good. (Seems that lots of students and parents assume that “STEM major = good job”, but that fails to notice significant difference in major-specific job markets for the various majors under “STEM”.)</p>
<p>Students should not be pushed into any major, but if they are truly undecided, they should be encouraged to keep the door open to as many possible majors as possible. Some students, through course selection as college freshman and sophomores, or even as high school students, shut themselves out of STEM majors early on without intentionally doing so.</p>
<p>YES - parents should urge kids to do STEM especially in middle school. STEM is hard work and the child left alone will generally prefer TV. Meanwhile 50% of US middle school teachers who teach STEM did not actually train for that in college! Which means parents are often well-advised to step in and enrich. </p>
<p>I encouraged my kids to try online math software and they did not really enjoy it at first, but they tolerated it. Two years later, they are quite adept and really enjoying math. That is a gift they will carry for the rest of their lives… and which required parental pressure for activation energy.</p>
<p>BUT just because you major in STEM at college does NOT mean you will work as an engineer or scientist for the rest of your life. If you love it, sure. But if not, you can easily move to other jobs and still benefit. Companies look for people with technical degrees for any kind of complex job, from lawyer to CEO to product manager. You may not be doing Fourier transforms every day, but your ability to understand hard topics and collaborate with engineers will still make you valuable.</p>
<p>I think all kids, no matter what major THEY choose, should have a solid grounding in STEM.</p>
<p>STEM majors, too, should have a solid foundation in English.</p>
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<p>However, a large percentage of entering college freshmen are behind grade level in math, so that they need to take remedial math courses to get to the point where their math skills are sufficient for college level math and science courses. Poor teaching and poor course selection in high school likely contributes to this problem.</p>
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<p>A college graduate in any major should be expected to be able to write effectively to communicate whatever ideas that s/he is explaining to someone.</p>
<p>Every college visit we took said the same thing - it is easier to start in engineering and transfer out then the other way around.</p>
<p>And there are many things I’m not a natural at, but with practice can become proficient. It might not be my favorite, but I could learn it. And with enough practice most of us could do well.</p>
<p>What I find interesting is how often I have heard grown ups tossing about and laughing about how they couldn’t do math. And they weren’t kidding, I can’t tell you often I see people unable to do basic math. However, you would never hear someone say - oh, I can’t read, I hate reading to the same level of acceptance.</p>
<p>Ha, ha, ha. Y’all clearly have never met a kid like mine, or like my friends kids. Three STEM mamas with three STEM papas managed to produce three gotta-sing-gotta-dance-gotta-design daughters. We are just amazed. The girls are tolerant of us in that well-their-my-parents way.</p>
<p>You roll those genetic dice, and then you play with whatever comes up.</p>
<p>It’s not a good idea to force or coerce a kid to go into STEM, even if they are quite capable in those fields.</p>
<p>FYI, forcing a kid who is good into math and science into engineering is also very common. Engineering is not the same as science. Science and math are more philosophical in nature, especially the classes, so a kid who is interested in math/science may hate engineering.</p>
<p>Anyway, if you’re interested in bio, you can always go to med school after taking a year of classes after graduation. There are many programs for this. </p>
<p>There are potentially serious consequences toward forcing a kid to do something they don’t want. They could lose their motivation for school, they may underperform in school, and ultimately may lose motivation to pursue their original interests. Don’t do it.</p>
<p>I do think every kid should try to take the full slate of core math/science AP classes and be good at them (e.g., a 5 on the AP and an “A” in the class.) (By core math/science, I mean chem, physics, calculus, and perhaps bio. And I also think kid should take AP english and history.) However, I believe this because I think high school should be about trying to push yourself in all areas. In contrast, college should be primarily for pursuing your strengths and your interests.</p>
<p>If kids haven’t mastered the high school material, then I’m not sure what I would recommend…Probably, I would say that they should pursue their own plan to nurture intellectual growth. If it differs from the parents, they should openly discuss the differences in philosophy but without coercion. Remember parents: you may not know what you are talking about either. If you are going to be giving advice, you should actually talk to multiple people in these fields. I’ve talked to parents who have had a lot of misconceptions about STEM, for instance.</p>
<p>To echo a previous post, if a kid is considering engineering at all, it makes sense to apply to the engineering school at state universities since it is harder to transfer in. But again, don’t force them to actually major in it.</p>
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<p>It’s definitely a dice roll. I always envisaged my D going into the arts or humanities, like the majority of her cousins (majoring in medieval history, religion, linguistics). Not that I particularly wanted her to do that (au contraire) but D is very well rounded and independent minded. I expected her to want to do her “own thing” and not be like her parents, who are both in STEM fields. Lo and behold, she vastly prefers math and science, and currently plans to be a physics major.</p>