<p>I’m not talking about graduate school right now, because I know that JHU has a very good medical school.</p>
<p>I am a senior applying as an undergraduate at the moment and I want to /eventually/ go into medicine. However, is jhu still a good school even though I wouldn’t be going for Med school?</p>
<p>Would others be like “wow but you’re not applying jhu’s med school, just as an undergrad”?</p>
<p>I am a alumnus from the early 70’s as well as a parent of 2 relatively recent alumni (one boy, one girl). Hopkins, IMHO, is a wonderful place to be an undergraduate–whether you’re preparing yourself to be a physician, a lawyer, a diplomat, a scientist, a professor, or most any other field which puts a premium on scholarship. It is not the easiest route to any of these goals; it is by design a very challenging learning experience. But if you love to learn and have a thirst for knowledge–I know of no place better to study. The opportunities are unparalleled.</p>
<p>You will hear some complain that Hopkins is too competitive. I say that’s hogwash. Every one of those fields I mentioned is highly competitive. If your undergraduate institution does not force you to stretch beyond your comfort zone–I assure you that you will not be as well prepared for the world after graduation.</p>
<p>I’ve heard Med school admissions are very hard these days, requiring very high MCAT scores and GPAs. Unless you are super brilliant i.e. you already know the stuff when you walk into a class, I’d say avoid colleges that grade hard …</p>
<p>The most notorious for hard grading/grade competitiveness I’ve heard are:
University of Chicago
Cornell
Johns Hopkins
UC Berkeley</p>
<p>And your experience that you base your advice on is what? High school?</p>
<p>Bonanza,
While your defensiveness is understandable as your children had a positive experience at Johns Hopkins, there is no need to attack blaw and comments. Please understand that your children’s experience may not necessarily reflect the universal opinion of JHU students.</p>
<p>There is a source that puts out publications on colleges (Sparknotes) that has gathered input from students. A while back I did some data collection and compared schools ranked in the USWNR Top 30 (posted below). For questions that reflected the balance in students’ lives and the way that students perceived their peers, JHU did not dispel their historic reputation. In fact, it was reinforced in these admittedly unscientific results (as was also the case with U Chicago and Cornell which blaw also referenced, but not with UC Berkeley). </p>
<p>Perhaps you are correct in your presentation of Johns Hopkins, but there are datapoints that reflect a different view. My suggestion is for any prospective student to visit the school and make his/her own judgment about the environment. </p>
<p>“Mostly normal people who have a decent balance of work and play in their lives. It’s all good.”</p>
<p>Balanced , Top 20 College</p>
<p>72% , Rice
72% , Vanderbilt
70% , Notre Dame
69% , Duke
68% , U North Carolina
65% , Columbia
60% , Princeton
60% , U Virginia
59% , UC Berkeley
57% , U Penn
57% , Dartmouth
57% , U Michigan
56% , Emory
55% , USC
53% , Wash U
53% , Brown
53% , UCLA
53% , Tufts
52% , Georgetown
51% , Northwestern
46% , Yale
46% , Wake Forest
44% , Stanford
38% , Caltech
33% , Johns Hopkins
31% , Cornell
28% , MIT
26% , Carnegie Mellon
23% , U Chicago
na , Harvard</p>
<p>“Frequently high-strung overachievers who tend to wake up early and study late into the night. They vex me with their diligence.”</p>
<p>High Strung , Top 20 College</p>
<p>58% , U Chicago
52% , Cornell
52% , Johns Hopkins
48% , Carnegie Mellon
43% , Wake Forest
41% , Georgetown
36% , Northwestern
36% , Emory
33% , U Penn
32% , Wash U
30% , Brown
30% , Tufts
28% , UC Berkeley
27% , U Virginia
26% , Harvard
25% , Columbia
25% , U Michigan
24% , Stanford
22% , Rice
21% , Notre Dame
19% , Dartmouth
19% , UCLA
19% , Vanderbilt
18% , Yale
18% , U North Carolina
16% , Duke
16% , USC
15% , Princeton</p>
<p>na , Caltech
na , MIT</p>
<p>Hopkins stands out in fields as diverse as International Relations, English/Creative Writing, and Computer Science. You want to be asking whether, apart from its reputation in medicine, it’s a good fit for you compared to other excellent schools. You can get good pre-med preparation at scores of colleges and universities.</p>
<p>In the Maryland-Delaware-Virginia area, the 3 most prestigious private, national universities are Hopkins, Georgetown and The University of Pennsylvania. Of these 3, Hopkins is academically the strongest in science and engineering research. In fact, Hopkins spends more on research than any other school in the country (about $1.5 billion per year). It’s where, historically, the modern American research university began in the late 1800’s.</p>
<p>The JHU campus is beautiful. However, I think most college students would agree, Baltimore is not as desirable a college town as Washington DC or Philadelphia (or Boston, NYC, San Francisco, the Twin Cities, Chicago …). It’s oddly provincial as major cities go, with a high crime rate. And not very much to interest college students in Homewood and other immediately surrounding neighborhoods (though of course you have the whole JHU campus to entertain you.)</p>
<p>I’m a big fan of hawkette’s lists. However, almost anytime you see a survey like this, you have to ask if there is not something like a “halo effect” going on. That is, a tendency for one-dimensional reputations to persist and become amplified by hearsay.</p>
<p>Chicago students, for example, facetiously play up this reputation (“The University of Chicago: Where fun goes to die!”) I’ve heard on the other hand that many Dartmouth students like to affect an indifference to studying (as if one is so brilliant, s/he does not need to put in the hours). However, I’m skeptical that Chicago or Hopkins undergrads really spend all that much more time studying than Princeton students do.</p>
<p>Listen to hawkette and go visit.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I can guarantee you that the premeds do – they have to if they want to be successful. 1) Hopkins doesn’t have Ivy grade-inflation, so C’s are given out like candy; 2) on a % basis, Hopkins has more matriculating frosh as premeds (due to its stellar repuation) – thus, the competition is a whole lot worse.</p>
<p>btw: Hopkins also has an excellent classics program.</p>
<p>
We’d know for sure if Hopkins released its COFHE survey results, but like most schools, it keeps those results clutched to its chest. As it stands, 4 of the 31 schools scored lower than Harvard in student satisfaction, and I strongly suspect Chicago and Hopkins are two of them. Fortunately, Chicago at least has been working on this in the last decade.</p>
<p>dunno about COFE, but I remember vividly an article in the Hopkins alum magazine ~2004/5. In a survey of incoming Frosh, more than half of the matriculants to the Hop expected to NOT have a good time in college. Again, more than half of new Frosh – pretty sad, IMO.</p>
<p>Any college worth attending will entail a lot of hard work. The standards at JHU are a plus, as far as I am concerned. JHU has a great reputation. It is a wonderful place for undergrad, especially if you like an urban location. The neighborhood around JHU is pretty decent. JHU is good in many areas, not just life sciences. Baltimore is a pretty exciting city: great restaurants and cultural events. Awesome aquarium. The inner harbor and Fells Point are fun.</p>
<p>Bluebayou–2 comments. First–the statistics you cite are from incoming freshmen over 5 years ago who were (because they as yet had no personal experience) basing their opinions on the same misinformation and myths that often permeate CC. The same report noted that the vast majority of graduating seniors believed that they received a superior education and most had a good time doing it. </p>
<p>Second, the report, which was done over 5 years ago, did point out some real problems, including the fact that too many students, albeit a minority, did not sufficiently enjoy their time as undergraduates. As a result of that report from the Committee on Undergraduate Education, numerous significant changes were made to improve the quality of the undergraduate experience. I’m surprised you didn’t mention that. If you talk to undergraduates today (I do often), I think you will find that the vast majority are enjoying their undergraduate experience in addition to receiving a superior education. </p>
<p>Hawkette–while perhaps I was a bit snippy to blaw ( I probably was tired)–I do get annoyed whenever people offer advice based solely upon what they “heard,” without any personal knowledge of what they are talking about and without any indication of their background or experience to enable someone to judge whether the advice should be taken seriously or not. The fact is that JHU has among the highest placement rates to medical school notwithstanding the faculty’s efforts to fight the grade inflation rampant at some other institutions. Medical schools are very familiar with Hopkins and its grading policies–and I’m told by admissions officers at medical schools (a few–I’ve obviously not spoken to them all–but at least the anecdotal evidence is consistent) that Hopkins’ undergraduates are highly regarded, very well prepared, and not at all at a disadvantage because their grades may, on average, be somewhat lower. They (just like undergraduate admissions officers evaluating high schools) are familiar with most colleges and make adjustments accordingly. </p>
<p>By the way, some undergraduate schools, including Princeton, are rethinking their attitudes about grade inflation and are toughening up grading standards. When most everyone gets an “A,” its difficult to tell the superior student from the average one.</p>
<p>^^^^
Hey, you need to take a chill pill. </p>
<p>Most of what we have are opinions, there is very little data. We form of our opinions based on the experiences of those we come across. Anecdotal evidence is all I have, and that’s what I mean when I say “I heard”.</p>
<p>I know of valedictorians from some of the most competitive schools in California who went to UCLA and Berkeley and drew a blank when it came to med school admissions primarily because of GPA,
while less capable individuals did just fine coming out of USC or UC Davis. It is widely believed in CC and elsewhere that universities like Chicago, Cornell, and JHU are injurious to your GPA health. If the college GPA is going to be what you care about a lot, you’d be shooting yourself in the foot by going to these schools.</p>
<p>You say “The fact is that JHU has among the highest placement rates to medical school”. May I ask what data supports this
what you claim to be true? Where is the data?</p>
<p>Also, the devil is in the details, right? How are you calculating “rate”? Where are they placed? Not in the Carribean or Poland, I presume? Who measured this “fact” and when? What trends
do you see?</p>
<p>If you consider thoughtfully, I’m sure you’ll find more questions than answers.</p>
<p>From the Johns Hopkins Office of Pre-Professional Advising:</p>
<p>" Qualified Johns Hopkins University applicants are very successful. While numbers depend upon the specific pool of applicants each year, roughly 80-100% of the qualified students and alumni who apply are accepted to medical school each year."</p>
<p>“The national percentage of applicants accepted to medical school in 2008 was 45.6 %”</p>
<p>"As a whole, Johns Hopkins has one of the top ten largest pools of applicants to medical school nationally. A total of 352 applicants with bachelor degrees from Johns Hopkins applied to medical school from Johns Hopkins "</p>
<p>“From 2003-2008, first-time Hopkins applicants with a 3.3 cumulative GPA or greater had more than a 88% chance of being accepted to a U.S. allopathic (M.D.) medical school.”</p>
<p>“From 2003-2008, first-time Hopkins applicants with a cumulative GPA below a 3.3 had just under a 50% chance of being accepted to at least one U.S. allopathic medical school.”</p>
<p>“In 2008, Hopkins applicants who were accepted to medical school had an average cumulative GPA of 3.55 and science GPA of 3.48 while the corresponding national figures were 3.66 and 3.60 respectively.”</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Thanks! The last bullet is great news. Looks like Med schools weight the JHU GPA higher than the average school.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Umm, no it is does no such thing. Med school is gpa PLUS mcat, and withouth the corresponding MCAT Scores, a lower accepted gpa means little by itself. And, of course, that national average of a 3.6 includes grades taken at community colleges, taken at Podunk college, the University of Phoenix, etc. </p>
<p>Need two-by-two Naviance-style graph to really see the benefit, if any.</p>
<p>I learned a lot from this thread. Everything was interesting to read, especially Hawkettes’ list. Thank you.</p>
<p>^^^ Only if graduates of community colleges, Podunk U and University of Phoenix are being accepted to US allopathic medical schools. Those numbers are for accepted students, not applicants.</p>
<p>^^Yup, and yes community college transfers are accepted into allopathic med schools! Perhaps a 4.0 at a juco and a 3.5 at a four year college, for an average of 3.75! Averages are just that, averages (AP Stat), and also included hooked candidates, btw.</p>
<p>The average MCAT for applicants accepted to US medical schools from Hopkins in 2008 was 30.6. For most allopathic US medical schools, the average MCAT is 31-32. For Hopkins and Harvard Med, however, the average MCAT is 37-38.</p>