<p>My son’s roommate graduated a year ago with a master’s degree in physician assistant studies. From what I understand, he has taken the licensing exam three times and failed each time. In order to have stayed in the program, the roommate was required to have a B or better average, and he did. My son believes the school’s program was weak, but the roommate is also to blame, as he was good at memorizing, but has a hard time applying what he learned. He has taken a few different review courses during the past year, and may only have one or two more chances to pass boards. My son will be seeing him this weekend, so I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions, even though this may be too sore of a subject for my son to bring up.</p>
<p>I’m an NP. In Ohio you can see the pass rate on the nursing state boards broken down by college. Any idea if they do that in your state for PAs? I always recommend that to nursing students so they choose wisely. </p>
<p>And I personally don’t think the school owes them. If attending school becomes a contract where does it end? Is it I can’t pass my boards, or is it I’m not on Broadway?</p>
<p>Taking law school as an example, there are a surprising minority of graduates even from the very elite law schools who end up failing their respective state bar exams in order to practice. Sometimes multiple times. </p>
<p>I’d doubt they’d be able to sue their law school for such results. </p>
<p>I imagine that such legal action would be successful only if the school guaranteed that graduates would pass their licensing exam. For that reason, I cannot imagine a school making such a promise.</p>
<p>The school doesn’t owe him anything. IMO, if he can’t pass the licensing exam and had struggles all along grasping the material, I wouldn’t want him making medical decisions on my behalf. </p>
<p>The school can’t guarantee that anyone can pass the exam, especially if the student can’t apply what he memorizes to practical questions. I remember back in my day I could manage to pass college Spanish courses, but dropped Spanish as a minor because, although I could pass the test, I couldn’t really get a grasp on the language when it was spoken. My written comprehension was okay, but I’d never be able to speak it. Seems similar with your son’s friend.</p>
<p>I’m not talking about taking legal action. I was thinking they might allow him to re-take some classes or, at the very least, meet with him and go over his tests and offer suggestions. </p>
<p>As far as I know, there is no central reporting of PANCE test scores (the test taken by potential PA’s). I wish there was. Do you know of any site, KKmama?</p>
<p>It’s just sad to think there are people out there who have earned their degrees and never get to use them, as I’m sure some never pass their boards.</p>
<p>Gannon had a 98% first-time pass rate in 2013, so out of the 45 students, it would seem he was the only student who failed.</p>
<p>I googled PANCE pass rate Gannon</p>
<p>I think he should ask the school for advice on whether he needs tutoring, more classes, perhaps a diagnosis with a learning disability. He might be able to take the exam in a different way.</p>
<p>There are a lot of students who aren’t good test takers. I know a very smart woman who has failed the bar 4 times. Another from my school graduated 5th in her class, had a clerkship with a judge, and failed 3 or 4 times. The easiest way to evaluate students is through a multi-question exam, but some students who do know the material don’t perform well on tests. Doing the same thing again and again isn’t helping. He needs a new approach, and I would start with the school.</p>
<p>It would seem so, KKmama. It would also seem like a pretty strong program, with that high pass rate. I still feel bad for this young man. Now that he’s become a “negative statistic” for the school, do they no longer care?</p>
<p>Unfortunately for him, if someone fails 6 times s/he has to retake the PA program again before being able to take it again. He may need to find another line of work, maybe as a first-responder or EMT, and take some refresher courses or something? Maybe things will click for him later.</p>
<p>Can he access the cash to take one of the week-long preparatory courses?</p>
<p>And yes, it is heartbreaking when things like that happen.</p>
<p>He already took that $700 5 day review course. I think they may have some type of guarantee, so at least he can take it again.</p>
<p>Yikes. </p>
<p>I’m in agreement with the resounding “no” that the college doesn’t owe grads a thing if they don’t pass their licensing exam.</p>
<p>I remember taking my professional licensing exam for engineering. Frankly, if someone can’t pass that 8 hour exam (certainly grueling but not insurmountable if one graduated from an ABET college/uni) then I wouldn’t want them as an engineer. (And I took it 12 years after my BS degree and without studying.) Same goes for doctors and lawyers. And PAs. Can’t pass the test? Don’t really want you practicing.</p>
<p>Some people don’t test well. Could be a learning disability. Could be that they just didn’t learn the material such that its still in their brain.</p>
<p>Didn’t JFK, Jr. have to take the bar exam multiple times? I felt sorry for him that he couldn’t just be frustrated privately like every other person who failed the exam.</p>
<p>If the PA exams are like med school exams (the training does parallel much,) one thing that’s very important is judgment.</p>
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<p>He took it multiple times and passed on the third try. A bit embarrassing at how public it was, especially considering he was among those from the single digit percentage who didn’t pass the bar from his graduating class at NYU law. </p>
<p>To be fair, the NY bar is considered the second most difficult to pass after California’s. </p>
<p>One does not have to be a professional engineer to work as an engineer in some capacity. One does not have to pass the CPA exam to work as an accountant. I would pick and choose for the job that I needed doing with those professions. For some positions the credentials are definitely wanted. One does not need to be board certified in any specialty to be a good physician in it. A good clinician may not know all of the nuances of the specialty but can be excellent. I do remember the Anesthesiology orals (which many specialties had dropped by my day, only requiring a written exam) were killer- in the real world you would ask for a consult while during the board exam you were acting as the cardiologist, obstetrician, internist et al. Punt to the appropriate specialist in reality when there was an underlying health issue to be investigated before surgery, know all specialties in the oral. btw- I did get my board certification.</p>
<p>No school owes its students a guarantee of passing any exams-in school or for licensure. I remember taking parts 1, 2 and 3 of the National Boards decades ago as a medical student and physician (new exam now). Part 1 was Basic Sciences, taken after the second year of medical school and Part 2 was after the 4th year- clinical rotations. One year later, after the first year of residency (used to be internship before my time) was Part 3. I recall Part 3 included questions of judgment. It wasn’t enough to know diagnostic tests and treatments but one was supposed to choose less expensive and more efficient methods. I’m sure this sort of reasoning is on the PA exam as well. It is easy to order every test available or to over treat- but that wouldn’t suffice.</p>
<p>I could not practice as an Occupational Therapist without passing a registration exam and having state licensure. No ifs, ands or buts about it. It’s different with a lot of health care professions than say the CPA /accountant example. </p>
<p>My school didn’t guarantee my licensure exam pass for speech pathology either. </p>
<p>I think the student should contact the college and see if he can retake any classes as an audit student. And he should make contact with is advisor there for some sage advice.</p>
<p>Schools do want students to pass because it makes them look bad if they don’t. But at the same time, I would think promising a “guarantee” would not be in the school’s best interest. </p>
<p>(Duplicate post deleted)</p>