Does a GAP year establish residency?

College Majors Music Majors
1

<p>DD, who just finished 8th grade, came home and announced she wants to major in Oboe Performance. She studies with an excellent private teacher and has received a 97 and 99 respectively on her last two NYSSMA level 6 solos in JR High. So I think the talent is there. Her teacher told her, being in Jr High, that the sight reading would be difficult on a level 6 for someone her age, but she aced it both times. 10/10. For those of you not familiar with it, level 6 is the highest level in NY state. She was accepted into and participated in every state honor group available to her at her grade level, Principal oboe in all although they messed up one of the programs!</p>

<p>Now, I know she’s got 4 years of HS school ahead of her, but it’s really been her dream for a long time. I will support her dream because my parents wanted a more “practical” major and I was miserable! At first she tried to be “practical” and say she was interested in music Ed., but she realizes at a relatively young age music is her passion, not teaching, and I give her credit for this. A teacher should want to teach! Performers should not use teaching as a “fall back” unless perhaps in giving out private lessons. (If possible,IMHO)</p>

<p>Here’s the thing. Hubby can retire early, the year DD graduates from HS. His dream has always been to move to a warmer state, and money will probably be a little tight for Private schools if we do that, unless she gets mucho merit aid. If we immediately moved upon graduation to say Florida or California, would DD be considered a resident after a GAP year for tuition purposes? I’ve heard the odds of even going to school after a GAP year decrease, but my husband did it. She could take private lessons and work part-time, maybe even volunteering to help out in the orchestra world, with promotions, ticket sales, whatever, to
get a “behind the scenes” look from that perspective.</p>

<p>And is there a state flagship in the south that is better then the others for music performance? We’re not really picky, we just want warm weather and nice people! Yes, we’re willing to move for daughter’s education-- an early retirement adventure! (No we
wouldn’t be living in the same city or down the block just to annoy her!) My work I can do anywhere. </p>

<p>One more thing, daughter achieved her success (so far) with less practice then I see the average musician on these boards putting forth. No, she’s not a prodigy but gets herself into so many activities, honors classes, sports, I know her schedule will have to give eventually. Should lack of self directed practice be raising a red flag at this point? Should I push practicing at her age, 14? And how do you fit in hours of practice if you’re taking honors
classes and expected to have lots of EC’s and Community Service? She was moved up to JV in two sports this year, but should I be worried about her injuring her fingers? Of course she could also fall down and break a finger walking down the hall! I’ll probably shock those on CC, but are AP courses in the accepted core curriculum a must for future music majors, even if regular courses offered are pretty rigorous but leave time for practice, sports (where she is learning a lot of self discipline, leadership and now has no fear about performing in front of an audience) and a social life?</p>

2

<p>My daughter (rising 11th grader) plays oboe and sax. The main issue with oboe is the teacher. Is she currently studying with a major player, such as a principal oboeist in a large symphony orchestra? She’ll need to do that before she graduates from high school. The best schools for oboe performance are in the northeast and mid-west. You don’t want to limit her choices to one state where you and your husband will reside, although she should certainly also apply to a safety, in-state school. For oboe specifically, there are more oboe schools in New York than in California or Florida. </p>

<p>Oboe players do not practice as much as other woodwind players. This is because they must master the art of reed-making. 90% of oboe issues center around the reed. The right reed makes The Sound that conductors and others are looking for. John Ferillo, principal of the Boston symphony, told my daughter last summer that she was practicing too much, that she should keep it to under 2 hours a day. Others may have different opinions though.</p>

<p>Send your daughter to summer music camp, Tanglewood/Interlochen/Aspen. The best players get full or close to full scholarships.</p>

<p>If your daughter wants to be a serious musician, she should drop the extracurriculars. Not only might they injure her, they are unnecessary and take up time. Spend that time practicing, learning the business of music, performing, going to concerts.</p>

<p>Example; friend of daughter’s who studied with same oboe teacher, just got into Juilliard on oboe on scholarship. Was home-schooled, no ECs, but she plays beautifully.</p>

3

<p>I’ve been told that colleges look into residency moves right before apply to colleges a lot, and sometimes will just deny residency. I would say that it could work, but don’t expect it.</p>

4

<p>I have seen several students move to Arizona and achieve residency at the University of Arizona in one year. Their parents didn’t move with them. It certainly can be done and accounts for huge savings.</p>

5

<p>If you are looking at Arizona for residency, I’d recommend Arizona State for oboe. Also, many students are able to obtain residency-rate tuition at the Jacobs school in Indiana–good place for oboe.</p>

6

<p>There are some state schools that grant in state tuition to those that receive a certain level of scholarship awards. It is worth checking. I know U of SO Carolina and U North Texas do. I believe there are others. So you might not be restricted to just the state you move to.</p>

7

<p>I can only comment on the “practice time” issue you are asking about. We ran into the same situation about the same age. What we were told by S’s teacher (piano) was that he may have the talent BUT others will have the drive and although they may not be at his level at age 14/15, by age 17/18 they could surpass him. I do think this holds true in many areas, not just music. By spring of Junior year, son had given up on his sports to spend the hours perfecting his material. That last 6 months before auditions and pre-recordings is critical. The hard part about trying to enforce practice time is that you become the bad guy. I worked with S’s teacher and she became the bad guy setting up a “practice program” where he had to record and then critique his own playing as well focus on more of the boring technical issues. It paid off though with acceptance to 7 of the 8 he applied to.</p>

<p>PS: We do know a student that moved before his senior year of hs to establish residency and it worked beautifully for them (in Seattle) - too cold/rainy to retire too! If it were me, I would contact a few of the schools (admissions office) that she would be looking at and ask the question with the reference about retirement.</p>

8

<p>While I do not know much about the Oboe program specifically, Florida State has an outstanding music program. We are from Connecticut and my son will be staring FSU this fall.</p>

<p>While researching FSU I came across many articles on residency, so Google should serve you well. One thing I will note about FSU is that if an out of state student is offered entrance to the music program, they receive an automatic Tuition Reduction Scholarship which is a function of the out of state differential. It is also possible to get additional OOS waiver money from the college of music itself.</p>

<p>Reading through the residency documents briefly, they also allow for re-classification. Basically, you need to show 12months of residency as parents or the student needs to show 5years of residency if his parents do not live in the state (lives with relatives etc).</p>

<p>If she’s talented, it’s very possible to get some decent scholarship from FSU as an out of state student and you could be re-classified as in state as she’s attending, so this may help to reduce the need to take that gap year.</p>

<p>Another option would be to move to the state and have your daughter take private lessons and attend a community college which may be an inexpensive option to get credit for the core liberal arts requirement while working towards residency. This way she’s not out of the college “swing”.</p>

<p>On another note… searching for college for a music student can be a fickle process. Just because you move to a state doesn’t necessarily mean she will get into a particular target school, so beware if your thinking of moving to a state with the express purpose of having your child attend college there.</p>

<p>Just some thoughts anyway… Good luck with your search. On a positive note, your starting and considering these things very early on! Cudos! </p>

<p>You can also private message me if I can be of any further help.</p>

9

<p>Of course, you’re already living in a state with multiple excellent choices for music in the state system (Fredonia, Potsdam, Purchase). And if the child continues to outpace her peers in performance during high school, she could be in line for significant merit aid at privates/conservatories, where residency wouldn’t matter.</p>

10

<p>California has very strict requirements for residency including registering to vote, driver’s license, tax and utility payments for 366 days before the first day of the term. Proving this involves a lengthy and relatively invasive declaration of residences, birth records, finances and tax liability related to California. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.ucop.edu/ogc/documents/student-information-sheet.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ucop.edu/ogc/documents/student-information-sheet.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.ucop.edu/ogc/documents/uc-residence-policy.pdf#page=13[/url]”>http://www.ucop.edu/ogc/documents/uc-residence-policy.pdf#page=13&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>and finally <a href=“http://www.ucop.edu/ogc/documents/10-things-undergrad.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ucop.edu/ogc/documents/10-things-undergrad.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<ol>
<li><p>Upon admittance to the University of California, your resident or nonresident classification is determined for purposes of tuition and fees only after you have completed and submitted a Statement of Legal Residence to the campus Residence Deputy. </p></li>
<li><p>If you are an undergraduate under the age of 24 and your parent(s) are not California residents, it is unlikely that you will be able to qualify as a California resident for purposes of tuition and fees.</p></li>
<li><p>The term “California resident for purposes of tuition and fees” comes from the University’s residence regulations and differs from other definitions of California residence. For example, a person who is a California resident for tax or voting purposes will not necessarily be a resident for purposes of tuition and fees. Admissions and Financial Aid definitions of resident also differ. They do not confer residence for purposes of tuition and fees.</p></li>
<li><p>You do not become a resident for purposes of tuition and fees simply by living in California for 366 days or more. The length of time you attend the University of California or live in California is not the sole determining factor of residency.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>…</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The UC residence regulations require that you and your parent(s), if they claim California residency, prove: 1) At least 366 days of physical presence in California with 2) concurrent intent to permanently remain in the state. If you are an undergraduate under the age of 24 and are not dependent upon California-resident parent(s), 3) you must be able to confirm financial independence for two full years immediately preceding the term you wish to enroll.</p></li>
<li><p>To prove financial independence, you must be able to document that you have not been claimed as an income tax dependent by any individual for two tax years immediately preceding the term, and that you have been totally self-sufficient for two full years prior to the residence determination date, supporting yourself, for example, through jobs, financial aid, commercial/institutional loans in your name only, and savings from your earnings. You must be able to document that you have paid rent and all other expenses from your own earnings.</p></li>
<li><p>You normally cannot establish California residence for purposes of tuition and fees while maintaining legal ties to another state or country (e.g. state tax liability, driver’s license, voter’s or vehicle registration). Further, if you have moved to California primarily to attend the University of California, you are here for educational purposes and so are not eligible for a resident classification for purposes of tuition and fees.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>…</p>

<p>The Cal States’ requirements may be a little different for each campus. You had have to check the campuses you are interested in specifically.
General policy <a href=“http://www.calstate.edu/budget/student-fees/documents/csu-residency-policy.pdf[/url]”>http://www.calstate.edu/budget/student-fees/documents/csu-residency-policy.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Also remember that the state funded schools, UCs and CSUs, are feeling budget cuts deeply. I am not sure but I suspect it has impacted scholarship opportunities.</p>

11

<p>Thanks woodwinds! What is a good age to start making reeds? Right now Shes playing on Kerry Willingham’s reeds, reedmaker.com and thinks they’re the best, she tried just about every other reed out there! It would be nice to be able to make her own. We talked yesterday and she realizes some of the EC’s will have to be given up. I asked her to rate her sports, music, other groups, and things she liked to do in different ways-- for instance, which is the most interesting? Enjoyable? That she couldn’t be without?, etc Each time Oboe ranked number 1. So we discussed practice time and she agreed it needs to be increased. Looking at it together, we figured out practicing wasn’t a problem, once she got started. So we’re going to try a schedule and say at this time, practice. Once she gets going, it’s all good. She also started playing sax last year! Her school teacher is really into Jazz, but she told him Oboe first! As to her Private teacher, she’s a wonderful woman who is a retired top player from a mid-size city orchestra. Her students have studied at Julliard, Ithaca, Eastman, Potsdam, Fredonia-- these recently so I’m sure there’s others.</p>

12

<p>Thanks Sqiggles. I agree some of the practicing issues are age related. The desire is still there but the practicing needs to match the desire! We talked about the same thing you said-- you can be very good at 14, but by 17 you’ll be surpassed if you don’t put the work in. She agreed.</p>

13

<p>That’s great to know, MrFritz, and would be great if she could go to FSU with instate tuition, maybe even if we were still up north. Google will be my friend! ASU also sounds good.</p>

14

<p>stradmom, Yes we are lucky to have Potsdam, Fedonia and Purchase in NY. But darn it’s cold! Of course she’s at camp in the Adirondacks in a tent this week (by her own choice) where its about 49 degrees at night so I can’t see where she can complain about the weather! And her teacher has mentioned not to give up on the Privates just yet, which we never planned on, I guess just trying to be realistic and not get to excited about a possible scholarship so early on. Her school teachers, the three she’s really enjoyed, went to Potsdam, Fredonia, and Ithaca and are talented players as well as excellent teachers.</p>

15

<p>Woodwinds–Reading your replies once more, I see there are more schools for Oboe in NY then in Fl or CA? Wow, did not know that! Does your daughter have a list of where she’s interested in going? Are there some schools that REALLY stand out for Oboe in particular? Perhaps because of an outstanding Oboe faculty?</p>

16

<p>The schools that stand out for oboe will change over time, depending upon who is teaching there. For example, Northwestern and Cleveland used to be in the top schools for oboe, when Ray Still (principal oboe in Chicago Symphony) and John Mack (Principal oboe of Cleveland symphony) taught there. These two were considered to be some of the best oboe players ever. Now that neither of them are teaching, I don’t think most people would rank either of those schools in the top 5 for oboe, although they are both certainly excellent music schools. Also, you need to consider how a person TEACHES in addition to the fact that he/she is an outstanding oboe player. For example, although the Curtis Institute is probably the most famous oboe school anywhere, the teachers are well-known for verbally abusing their students. In addition to Curtis, we will look at schools in Manhattan (Juilliard Mannes Manhattan) and Boston (NEC, Boston University), perhaps Indiana. </p>

<p>One reason for going to summer music camps is so that your daughter can become familiar with the teaching styles of different oboe players. The top oboe players in the US all teach somewhere in the summers. Also become involved in opportunites where she can meet other symphony oboe players. For example, my daughter’s youth orchestra got to work with members of the Philadelphia Orchestra last year in a masterclass. She also just won a fellowship which will allow her to work with our local major orchestra for the next two years. Many cities have similar opportunities.</p>

<p>Regarding reeds, different teachers have different views on this. One top oboe player would have his students spend 6 hours a day on reeds and only 20 minutes playing. Others prefer that high school students learn how to make reeds from cane that is already gouged, and leave learning the full process until college. My view is that my daughter needs to make her own reeds, but she can learn gouging later. Right now, she needs to maximize her practice and listening time. Right now would be a good time for your daughter to start reed making. It takes years to do really well. Mine makes her own reeds, but does not consistently make great ones. Her current teacher will not make them for her as he says she needs to work through it and make her own. However they like the same kind of reed, which is important. My daughter could not play the reeds her first teacher made, as they were far too soft for her. I used to order some for her, until she learned to make her own.</p>

17

<p>I was just your average HS clarinet player, so I’m a little out of my league when it comes to schools for Oboe, making double reeds, etc.</p>

<p>My mom sang Soprano, locally, beautifully. My daughter jokes with my Mom, who is now in a nursing home, that musical talent must skip a generation!</p>