<p>hyakku says
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<p>wneckid99 says
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<p>cheers says
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<p>JHS says
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<p>barrons says
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<p>knicknack says
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<p>ejr1 says
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<p>I say the following:
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<p>Well said BigAppleDaddy. As a former Northeastern Husky (I’ve transferred to Penn), I know a thing or two about Boston, and I can see why some blacks may feel that way about it. The fact is that in America, for blacks to integrate themselves into society on a positive note, at times we have to suck it up and put up with some things we’d rather not have to put up with. </p>
<p>Fortunately, putting up with poorly constructed posts that are racially insensitive isn’t one of them. What am I supposed to think when a white person always characterizes schools in a city as “bad?” MovieBuff clearly plays off the images and reputations that white’s have of cities like Philly and NYC (the black parts).</p>
<p>On Boston, safety and crime stats</p>
<p>I recall studen guide books refering to N’eastern as being in a “bad” neighborhood (Roxbury). I also recall, during one of the annual TakeBack the Night marches in Boston, a woman stating that Harvard Sq had more rapes than any other neighborhood. Now, certainly rape is not the only violent street crime, but, only a White affluent neighborhood can retain its “good” reputation despite such bad stats.</p>
<p>nyc : dont know about the crime stats for harvard square, but i have always been fascinated by the paradox of crime in affluent nabes: the less there is, the more you hear about it. the one mugging a year (or however infrequently) on park ave., and it might be on the news for days. two teenagers gunned down in brownsville (a tough brooklyn nabe) and its a squib in the crime pages. </p>
<p>Yep, the park ave mugging is probably rarer than a brooklyn murder. But it still brings back the old fear, magnified by the media, that white victims matter more. Devaluing any crime victim is an attitude that over the long term makes EVERYONE less safe and boosts all sort of ugly sterotypes about everyone --victim, criminal, residents. </p>
<p>datdue; prejudiced folks cannot be bothered to be confronted with reality. they will never be able to make the distinction among people in non-white neighborhoods. not because they can’t, but they won’t. it is too expensive in some way for them to give up their preconceived notions. </p>
<p>Still, the “Harlem is a bad nabe” type argument (applicable to many places in the U.S. now besides Harlem) cracks me up when I realize that many people who say it couldn’t afford to live there now! (But it least it passes the Bill Oreilly test: No bboys in the restaurant screaming
"Bring me some ice tea M*<strong><em>f</em></strong>**! Bring me some iced tea!)</p>
<p>I’m a U of C student, and I often think that Hyde Park gets dumped as a “bad neighborhood” because it is a black neighborhood. Moreover, it’s a neighborhood with all sorts of income levels-- quite often, it’s the blacks who drive the Mercedes and the whites who drive the fifteen-year-old Buicks.</p>
<p>I happen to believe that the racial composition of our neighborhood (43% white, 37% black, according to W-pedia) doesn’t help our image. As another poster pointed out, we are somewhat gentrified (Walgreens, Office Depot, Starbucks), we still don’t have a good grocery store, a movie theater, a Gap. There are residents of HP who can afford these things many times over. Why we don’t have them beats me.</p>
<p>Anyway, it’s some food for thought.</p>
<p>Yes I will be honest, when I hear the word ‘Bad Neighborhood’ the image of largely blacks and hispanics come to mind. That has more to do with the conditioning of mind from TV and papers and personal safety concerns. The same way I have made a note never to visit Jasper, TX or Jena, LA.</p>
<p>Would I be afraid to walk on the grounds of Praire View A&M or TSU or live in my house that is half a mile from a mega black church (the pastor comes in a helicopter)? The answer is no. (but, when I have to drive on Sunday mornings, I do avoid that road…traffic).</p>
<p>Datdude,</p>
<p>You state :“Wasn’t welfare supposed to benefit blacks primarily?” What could possibly have led you to this conclusion?</p>
<p>Datdude, </p>
<p>In post #16 you state;"The other part of my thread I should have asked, “What do you think of posters who reply to chance threads with, ‘being a minority will work for you?’”</p>
<p>In the context of chance threads being black is an unambiguous advantage. Saying that it “works for you” is no insult, just a statement of fact.</p>
<p>Curious, It’s not that the statement “being black works for you” is an insult, it’s just poorly conceived. Who can honestly say that and know what they’re talking about, unless they’re an admissions counselor or employer responsible for bringing diversity to their place of employment? You’ve said it is a statement of fact. C’mon now, let’s be more sensible than that. </p>
<p>Are the questions I asked about blackness being an advantage in areas other than college admissions irrelevant? </p>
<p>It’s also funny you ask me about my comment on welfare. Don’t black people take the biggest hit from it’s use, as it fuels the stereotype that we are lazy and rely on it rather than going out and getting a job? Well, we also take the biggest hit with AA, as it fuels the stereotype that we need special provisions to get into elite colleges, get good jobs, etc…</p>
<p>Datdude,</p>
<p>“poorly conceived”? What are you talking about? The issue has been researched at length and the advantage in admissions associated with being black is about 200 points on the old 1600 scale for the SAT’s. Go to any of the lengthy threads on AA on this site for the citations. The fact is that there are more whites than blacks on welfare. However, blacks are disporportionately respresented on the wlefare roles. The same is true of poverty in the U.S. The questions you asked about the disadvantages of being black in other aspects of life are not irrelevant. But they do not change the fact that being black is an advantage in college admissions which is all the statement that “posters who reply to chance threads with, 'being a minority will work for you” means. I am not exactly clear what it is that you would like to see. Do you want people to be specific when they say a neighborhood is “bad” by explaining exactly what is “bad” about the neighborhood. If so, fair enough, why didn’t you just say that?</p>
<p>Have you ever been arrested for driving while white? Have you ever been stopped because you were a white person walking in a black part of town? Has anyone ever called you the white equivalent of the n-word? (I don’t even know what that might be?) Have you ever not been shown an apartment or a house because you were white? Or told there were no vacancies after all? If you can answer yes to all three then you might have a reason to say that blacks aren’t disadvantaged.</p>
<p>Curious,
numbers can be manipulated, and if you think it matters what was said on some previous AA threads, well it doesn’t. I’ve happened to attend a number of colleges over a lenghty time-frame. I am here SEEING with my two eyes what is happening at colleges and nowhere in sight is the notion that being black works for you when applying to college. Now, does it work against you as much as it used to? Well, I would hope not. </p>
<p>And of course I want people to be specific about the bad neighborhood/black neighborhood discussion. Staying on the surface of a question like that doesn’t get anyone anywhere. That’s how we get a better understanding, rather than listening to someone proclaim such and such school is in a bad neighborhood, while narrowly avoiding making an outright racist statement.</p>
<p>Thanks mathmom, because curious can’t understand the problem with someone loosely stating that, “being a minority (black) works for you,” when many of us have seen a life where being black works against you. With the conditions blacks face today, particularly black males, that statement is downright untrue.</p>
<p>Datdude,</p>
<p>You seem committed to taking umbrage at the truth, so I’ll leave you to it.
You are confusing an argument for giving an advantage in admissions to blacks for an argument that no such advantage exists. The first position is arguable but the second is not. On the neighborhood question I too think it is helpful if people explain what about the neighborhood is bad. But unfortunately many of the things that most people would agree are bad, e.g. crime and drugs, are often prevalent in some predominantly black neighborhoods. You should not assume that because someone calls a neighborhood “bad” and it is black that they are calling the neighborhood “bad” because it is black.</p>
<p>Curious,
I will not entertain any notion that the word “advantage” in reference to blacks in the admissions process exists. On Penn’s campus, I don’t recall it being predominantly black, and we probably have the fourth highest population here. If there’s an advantage for black students here (or at any of the schools I attended) I just don’t see it. Are these small numbers indicative of where our “advantage” has gotten us? If it is then it’s pathetic.</p>
<p>Word power is a wonderful thing, because people who have it know how to use words that aren’t offensive. If some blacks recieve some extra consideration due to their minority status, fine. If there will be some spots alloted for qualified black students so as not to completely shut us out, then fine. But to suggest that being black is an advantage in the college admissions process? Sounds like someone upset at the entire AA thing to me. </p>
<p>And I didn’t assume anything about anyone. I was referring to MovieBuff cause I know her all too well from another forum. I haven’t had anything to say about anyone else’s post on the matter but hers. Just go to the Yale forum and look up the “is New Haven a bad area” thread. You’ll understand my problem with her.</p>
<p>Have you ever been arrested for driving while white? I’ve never been arrested for anything. But in my largely white town, a black friend was often stopped, sometimes by black cops. Of course he found it very annoying, but both he & the cops quickly got to know one another and both were respectful to one another. No arrests were ever considered!</p>
<p>Have you ever been stopped because you were a white person walking in a black part of town? Yes, several times. I consider this heads-up police work. If a section of any town or city is inhabited by one race exclusively, then someone of anther race is likely an outsider. It’s no different than a cop stopping a 20 year old wandering in a senior citizen development. Politely inquiring about a person’s business is not harmful. He or she could be lost, up to no good, or just out for a stroll.</p>
<p>Has anyone ever called you the white equivalent of the n-word? (I don’t even know what that might be?) Yes, several times. And several different slurs were thrown.</p>
<p>Have you ever not been shown an apartment or a house because you were white? I highly doubt it, but I really can’t say. This must be incredibly frustrating to blacks attempting to rent, and I know this happens frequently. </p>
<p>Or told there were no vacancies after all? Yes.</p>
<p>back to the ‘bad’ neighborhood definition. Let’s face it… anyone who assumes that because they’re walking through a neighborhood with many of the physicalities mentioned in some of the previous posts (abandoned buildings, OTB, lots of loitering, etc.) would be stupid to assume that because there are no blacks, that it’s a safe neighborhood. Look at the infrastructure, not the skin color. If you don’t take in the obvious signs of it not being a safe neighborhood, then you’re heading to be the next victim of crime - if when walking through a run-down area that gives you peace of mind because it’s predominantly white, then I hope you have really good self-defense skills.</p>
<p>You all have some valid points. Stickershock, mathmom was basically stating that racism is still highly prevalent in the world, so much so that hearing how being black is an advantage in the college admissions process just doesn’t add up. Advantage implies unfair, and opponents of AA have this sick idea of reverse discrimination in their heads, in which case I would tell them to watch the move “Glory Road” very carefully.</p>
<p>datdude—if you look at the average academic qualifications of white vs. black students at any selective school you will see a distinct difference in favor of accepting blacks with lower quals. That’s just a fact. BTW Glory Road took place before anyone thought of affirmative action.</p>
<p>barrons, that fact can not be argued. But there seems to be a problem with communication here, or perhaps more… curious14 had no choice but to tell the OP that
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<p>I seems the use of the word “advantage” to describe AA may not be politically correct or sensible enough.</p>
<p>I would add that just like JHS predicted in post# 32 the discussion ends up with AA. No use in even going there.</p>
<p>“My Grandfather’s Son”, by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas was just released and it’s already generating another wave of criticism.
Thomas opposes affirmative action, the very program that his critics insist was solely responsible for his admission into Yale Law School. Just like CNN commentator Ruben Navarrete stated in his most recent piece, “Clarence Thomas, has a right to be angry”</p>