<p>No matter how qualified you are, they can still say no, and no matter how much that stings, no matter how qualified you are, that’s the truth. It’s life. All you can do is live it.</p>
<p>the bitter truth at the heart of it all…</p>
<p>I have moved on, guys. I am attending the University of Miami with a full tuition + 4k (and hopefully Gates Scholar as well)! As for the elite Ivies, God willing, I will make a stronger case four years from now. That’s all I can do at the moment.</p>
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<p>Haha, my essay was so socially conservative that I’m beginning to think it was a semi-hook within itself ;)</p>
<p>chi-town, I feel so sad at your comment, life is not fair, admissions is not fair, that we have to live with it.</p>
<p>I do hope my son will learn a different lesson or practise a different philosophy: that one must always strive, in every circumstance one finds himself in, to make life fair.</p>
<p>The adcoms have become gods unto themselves; they are most often 20 somethings with little experience of life. We have elevated their political and social agendas as the impeccable selections of a Delphic Oracle. I don’t know if they (meaning say the adcoms at MIT) are right or wrong or get the fit right or wrong, we will never know, nor will they but let’s all allow them to pretend.</p>
<p>Cellar, even if I think my son is not a match for MIT and MIT adcoms agree that doesn’t mean either is right. We might have seen the match differently. I didn’t want him to go to a place with too many Asian kids. The MIT Educational Advisor, someone like you, told us that he was quitting the job because he was stunned my son was not accepted, thought he was the perfect match, the best candidate he had interviewed in the last several years.</p>
<p>We don’t care either way, but let’s stop making gods out of fallible adcoms. They are probably winging it, what the hell can you make out of a file in 30 mins of reading? I have spent 20 years reading more elaborate charts of psychiatric patients in therapy and still can’t figure most of them.</p>
<p>ramaswami, you are completely right. Admissions is nothing but a matter of opinion. It is in each institution’s opinion that an individual is a fit or not. Still, everyone should strive for success and to make life work fairly as much as possible. All I’m saying is that students don’t have to let what one college says determine their value as a person or to let a college’s word determine their judgment of another individual. </p>
<p>Continue to encourage your son, and if he will have the right mindset, I’m sure everything will work out. Personally, that is my philosophy. I was just expressing what I feel to be a grim truth. But in the grand scheme of things, would you consider college admissions to be a small component of one’s life? I’m talking about admissions, and not the college experience which, I believe, far outweighs it. It’s all about effort. What you receive in life is directly related to what you put in (aside from a few variable factors outside of anyone’s control).</p>
<p>Northstarmom, I am well aware of how competitive Harvard is and how brilliant the students are. I was, however, talking about college admissions in general–I in no way thought I was a shoo-in at any of the Ivies, much less Harvard, but I did think I was a match for schools ranked in the twenties. I’ve won my share of awards, but I know a lot of kids who have won NONE getting these same schools.</p>
<p>My point is: yes, I agree that not every Asian student with stellar stats can be accepted because many of them major in science & math. I DO feel that a lot of non-minorities (not just Asians) get slighted for unjust reasons. I don’t like the assumption that if too many Asians are accepted, there will be no diversity on campus. I don’t like the idea that there is a “typical Asian.” Maybe college decisions are the way they are right now, but I hope that it will evolve over the years.</p>
<p>PS. I have only the deepest respect for Harvard and its entire faculty after spending a month there. I am in no way censuring Harvard. I am criticizing certain (apparently prevalent) prejudices toward college applicants.</p>
<p>" . . . from my son’s school two kids got into Columbia, my son with SAT of 2350, then a black kid with SAT of 1800.</p>
<p>All the bright white kids were shafted. A Hispanic with 2100 got into MIT, my son was rejected. There was nothing else exceptional about the admits, they had no ECs.</p>
<p>After all that jazz about meritocracy, the top colleges are mostly political in their admissions."</p>
<p>The above comment is not merely wrong, but deeply offensive.<br>
Let me try to explain: I attended an Ivy League college nearly 30 years ago. I was poor, from the south, and had what would now be considered a modest scholastic profile. Yet, I was accepted - and have never had any doubt that it was my hook - namely being a URM - that got me in.
Now, why do I find the above comment “offensive.” Well, there’s an assumption here that white’s are “shafted” because their places being taken by unqualified minorities. This is absolute nonsense.<br>
Sure, most of the black students in my class had SAT scores and gpa averages that were below average. But many of them - and trust me on this - were absolutely brilliant, and have since accomplished much since their college years.<br>
In my own case, although my admission to college was certainly mostly based on AA, I have two sons now attending Ivy League colleges. Both of them are exceptional students: my youngest, was in the top three percent of his class in a very competitive private school, and scored 800cr, 800w, and 750m.<br>
My point here is simple: it’s racist to assume that black and Hispanic students are invariably academically inferior.</p>
<p>kubakloth: Good for you and your sons. AA worked for you as it should have. I agree, you and your black peers were probably brilliant regardless of the scores and GPAs, and it is no surprise that you have all done well. </p>
<p>My point is, your sons were not as disadvantaged as you were. They were probably privileged compared to average Americans. Should their presence on the campus of an Ivy League college be used by that college as an excuse to stop recruiting other poor black children from the South? Could it be that your boys effectively denied that opportunity to those poor black kids? I hope not. The best advocates those poor black kids in the South have are alumni such as yourself. You need to hold your alma mater to the same high standards that got you there in the first place.</p>
<p>Why give a spot to the child whose parents has given him all the prep he needs to get into top schools when you can give it to the child who has nothing, yet has managed to excel in his academics?</p>
<p>I would rather have a child who has overcome many obstacles in getting to the top than have the child whose parents has “nurtured” him to go to an Ivy League school.</p>
<p>Affirmative Action should be based on a socioeconomic perspective, but ‘oh well’. </p>
<p>The Asians and/or whites in this thread need to get off of their high horses (the few who are ranting). No one cares if you’re getting a 2400 or if you’re volunteering in 100 organizations… not when your parents are making 100,000+ a year and when you’re driving fancy cars. They do, however, care when that boy who has to support his family because his dad is in prison excels in the classroom… And I think that’s the difference.</p>
<p>Yes, you might have terrific ECs and stellar grades, but what did you have to overcome to attain your qualified position? For most of you, the answer is ‘nothing’.</p>
<p>kubacloth, I did not assume that blacks and Hispanics were inherently inferior. In the 2 examples I pointed out, by the only numerical measure available, SAT score, a measure also used by college and USNews the minority kids from my son’s school were inferior. Their grades and AP scores were inferior. They were not from a disadvantaged background, they were privileged, this is a private CT prep school, father of one is an exec with Coke. In this context, yes the Asians and whites from same school were shafted. </p>
<p>I have no problem with truly disadvantaged black and Hispanic kids getting a leg up. Re your situation, you say that your classmates were low on SAT and GPA but yet I must take your word they were brilliant? By what measure, sir?</p>
<p>Then, after devaluing the SAT and GPA as a measure of brilliance (by the way I am not arguing that they measure brilliance) you offer the numbers for your kids. What argument are you proving? That you mention your kid’s scores tells me you do value that score when it comes your way but discount it when it does not. You are being disingenuous.</p>
<p>Rosh420 … you are being a little too presumptive. </p>
<p>Yes, I am an Asian with “stellar grades and stellar scores and stellar ECs”. But you automatically assume that my “parents are making 100,000+ a year and [I am] driving fancy cars” when, in reality, our family (illegal immigrants until 2 years ago) barely get by. My parents, combined, earn less than $18,000 anually and we are scraping every penny to put my two elder sisters through college. We emigrated to the US from Bangladesh less than 7 years ago … and none of us (especially me) were speaking any English, barring a few sporadic adjectives and pronouns. Equipped with almost nothing but hope and motivation, I have done all I could in high school. I established organizations that tackled racism and initiated interfaith/intercultural dialogue, outshined most of my peers in academics and competitions, and most importantly, grasped a good command of the English languge (I personally take immense pride in this 
) etc. And I could go on and on … </p>
<p>But, unfortunately (?), I am an Asian. Although I made sure the above things shined through in my application and my essays, I was probably lumped into the already super-luminous Asian applicants category. Now would things have been different if I were a Latino? or Black?</p>
<p>And kubakloth … you’ve got it totally wrong, sir. No one in this thread were being racists…as far as I could tell.</p>
<p>Was HArvard made aware of your struggles? :)</p>
<p>Ramaswami:</p>
<p>I actually met your son at a summer program, really awesome guy. I was shocked too that he didn’t get into MIT. But I guess this process is always a little bit random.</p>
<p>Ramaswami: What kind of fairness do you seek in the college application process? What would be fair to all applicants, as well as your son? You write of frustration and injustice, but don’t offer a model that provides for the kind of justice you say is lacking.</p>
<p>vicarious parent, you made a very good point. In our high school the only one to get into HYP was a minority who jumped the queue over the top - white and asian - students. This student is from an educated, wealthy family but the adcoms can use him to tick that minority box. You can understand how this can lead to some resentment - not against the student - but against the schools and the admission process.</p>
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[quote]
Affirmative Action should be based on a socioeconomic perspective, [/quote[</p>
<p>Agreed 10char</p>
<p>I’m not sure about an Asian quota, but three Asian girls (well, one was 1/4 Asian) from my school got into Harvard this year, so if there was one, it didn’t seem to hurt chances at our school…</p>
<p>It seems that Harvard really, really emphasizes leadership–and if you’re an asian (or any race) candidate who is involved in many key positions and activities compared to the rest of the applicants from your region (that’s the subjective factor), then the likelihood of your acceptance is higher.</p>
<p>I think a lot of my friends and I fell short there-- we’re pretty typical (smartish, community service, goodish stats)–
BUT what’s weird is that before I used to think people who said “oh there’s always grad school” oddly (perhaps foolishly) optimistic–but now my opinion, is that’s so true, there is always grad school! <– sorry a bit off topic
So the point is have your rice and noodles, and most certainly bok choy, and be ready to have a great university experience whereever that may be!</p>
<p><– omg, somebody probably already pointed that out, oh well no harm repeating it :)</p>
<p>lol no worries bk77_superb … I myself am looking for a wonderful and educational time at the University of Miami. Go Hurricanes!</p>
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<p>I think you are giving way too much credit to the adcoms and much too little to the schools who set the policies. Again, only speaking about MIT with which I have some familarity, the process is quite sophisticated and involves multiple reviewers, committee meetings and fairly objective metrics. It is actually the faculty that largely controls the admissions policies. Adcoms just execute the policies. While I firmly believe MIT is a true meritocracy, nobody can claim to be guaranteed admission. Academic achievements only take you so far and dozens of USAMO finalists are turned down every year. Again, I never disputed that your son was qualified to be admitted to MIT. So were probably four or five thousand other applicants. There are some strong academic hooks for MIT admission such as USAMO medalist or Intel/Siemens finalist. These are actively recruited. Beyond that, top SAT scores count for little. Once you are in the 2200-2300 range they look for other characteristics.</p>
<p>Where I disagree with your perception is on the issue that creative talent cannot be measured objectively. At Harvard, they seem to seek demonstration of leadership abilities, at MIT adcoms are asked to find evidence of creativity. I also don’t believe that it can easily be faked. MIT has a section on the application for that purpose. They ask references and interviewers to provide information during the application process. They scan the essays for additional evidence. In the end, each applicant is measured along the two metrics of academic and creative achievements. Undoubtedly, there will some randomness and quite a few close calls, especially with a glut of qualified applicants. But adcoms are not oracles.</p>