It’s not a question of “overriding” an adcom’s decision. It’s a question of having additional information to take into account. A disinterested person you know and respect – putting the rabbit into the hat a little, since all that may not always be true – actually met the candidate and spent an hour talking with the candidate. It makes a real difference if that person says, “This applicant comes across as a self-important jerk who doesn’t really know as much as the applicant would like you to think,” or “This applicant is one of the most impressive young people I have ever met.” That’s not phony, useless information; that’s real information.
If the adcom has met the candidate in question and disagrees, or if the adcom doesn’t completely trust the interviewer or think the interviewer is disinterested, those are all reasons to discount or disregard the information, and I’m sure that happens. But much of the time there won’t be any reason to discount the information.
Capitulate is an odd choice of words. I’m not sure what you’re driving at there. It’s clear from Princeton’s own statements that’s it’s concerned about much more than protecting the confidentiality of individual apps.
Let’s go with that assumption for a moment. We might conclude that the admissions section of CC is at best useless and most likely counter-productive. After all, any kid who is selective college material would do their own research before posting on CC. Right?
We at least agree on this much. If someone is ready to compete at a Div 1 school in most sports, their parents probably dedicated a lot of time and money to get them to that point.
“None of the universities with opaque and discriminatory admission policies should accept any federal money. Then they could do whatever they want.”
@TooOld4School
Federal money goes to opaque and discriminatory companies (in the way of government contracts and R&D money) and churches (in the way of massive tax cuts.) So why should universities be different?
Are you going to set up a whole new regulatory agency that does nothing but check the clarity and lack of discrimination at every entity it does business with?
You’re too smart to believe what you just wrote. You know we already have federal agencies which prohibit various types of discrimination in the work place. If you think there aren’t already additional strings, auditors, and regulatory agencies involved in monitoring federal contracts, you’ve never dealt with any.
@roethlisburger – you’ve never heard of sex and age discrimination cases among military contractors? Union-busting in aerospace companies? Pharma companies that get government research contracts which then jack up their prices by hundreds percentage points, discriminating against poor patients? Big pharma: yea, that’s not an opaque industry.
Roeth, you’d be surprised. Don’t you see how focused chance-me kids are on stats, what they think are “great ECs,” what they want? Not what makes them a match to what the U seeks. And then the Why Us issue.
That’s the problem with AdComs nowadays–constantly moving the goal post for unhooked kids. No wonder most kids (who are naturally unhooked) cannot enjoy HS anymore…
A senior at S18’s school made it into all the Ivies. He’s a URM, and, according to kids who know him from sports and clubs, humble, kind and really nice. So in this particular case no resentment when it comes to his hook.
In recent news, a report on Princeton admissions was released in which it was revealed the school admissions officers frequently discussed the student’s “cultural flavor” or ethnic “blend” and whether or not it made them enthusiastic about admitting the applicant. They really liked the fact one kid was an Hispanic Korean mix, apparently. Also, they referred to some Asian applicants as having “very familiar profiles.” Students who were URM but did not demonstrate any impact from their racial or cultural background anywhere else in their application were viewed less favorably. In other words, the less assimilated the URM was, the better their chances of admission were.
It’s subject to misinterpretation. It isn’t, eg, that a kid’s parents were A and B, but the perspective he might add to the class mix. Or not. And nothing says only Asian Am kids can be familiar profiles. Most kids present much the same.
Regardless, these sorts of determinations are most definitely not transparent, and I suppose many people would feel resentment if they knew a student got in over them just because the adcoms arbitrarily decided that his/her ethnic background had more “flavor.” That is not even remotely an objective measure. It’s not as concrete as saying a kid grew up in tough circumstances, overcame a lot of adversity and did well, albeit with lower stats than other applicants.
Sometimes and often, the college application acceptance is unfair. It is unfair to the USA students that have worked so hard, while attending public schools that barely pay their teachers in comparison to private schools and international schools. It really depends on, if your child is or isn’t born into poverty, a minority, or doesn’t have a “story” like being a one of quadruplets, the luck of the draw as how they were accepted into a top University.
I admire overcoming adversity, because I did go on to raise a child that I will full pay his University bill while he attends Princeton. Neither of his parents attended college. Our child will receive, because we chose to save and failed many times before we succeeded, the best education.
I guess you could say our child is full pay and a first generation college student. Hook or no hook he will eventually succeed.
Dear Dad,
Happy Father’s Day! You are a terrific father. In particular, I’d like to thank you for all you’ve done to help me achieve my educational goals. I definitely owe it to you that I was able to get into such a good university. The fact that you’re Hispanic really gave me a boost in admissions, but if only you had married a Korean woman instead of mom, I might be going to Princeton instead of Rutgers. Oh well, you’re still the best.
You are wrong @TheGFG. It all luck of who saw the application and how the University fills their need.
Crap shoot.
Unless you are quadruplets or legacy or play a good game in a sport.
No, actual Princeton admissions records show that the admissions staff took into consideration the candidate’s specific ethnic mix, tending to prefer a more interesting combination over a standard ethnicity… That is a concept far more fraught with potential injustice than a general concept of creating a diverse class with a mix of people from different backgrounds…
You do post alot so you must “know” what you are saying. Sarcasm. No they don’t. They do have a diversity of student mix and it is successful. I don’t agree with it completely, but imagine if all Princeton attendees were rich White American males from the northeast. It would be 1746-1969 all over again.
@TheGFG - “The fact that you’re Hispanic really gave me a boost in admissions, but if only you had married a Korean woman instead of mom, I might be going to Princeton instead of Rutgers.”
I know that you wrote this in half jest, half sarcasm, but in reality it’s most likely the other way around, that is, only if your dad had married a Korean woman instead of mom, you might be going to Rutgers instead of Princeton. What the article seems to inform is that just checking off the box is no longer going to give the URM an edge. After all, there are thousands of applicants who do check the box. The adcoms are looking for someone to stand out among them with “familiar profile.” The way I read it, including the remark about that “neat blend,” is the cultural (or, in this case, bi-cultural or multi-cultural) affirmation of the applicant’s make up, not just racial.