@TiggerDad @TheGFG , My fully American kiddo, that was raised by a Lithuanian, Dutch, German, Scottish, part Italian American citizen and who knows whatever else Mother and a full fledged Italian Immigrant/American citizen from the south of Italy Father, who could possibly have heritage from North Africa and Spain made it off the waitlist at Princeton checking the box that he was Caucasian. I don’t know if his Italian Father or our lack of college and full pay was the hook but I guess you both made a good point.
Wow, some draw conclusions quickly. You haven’t seen ‘actual P admissions records.’ NOR do you know they “preferred” some mix over “standard.” Or that kid’s academic worthiness and overall brightness.
It’sjust one line in…wait for it…BuzzFeed. Oh, goodie. Maybe go back and read how investigators noted adcoms made the same sorts of comments abut Asian Americans as “about white and other minority applicants.” Or that they "concluded that P did not discriminate based on race"or judge by race.
But go on.
@lookingfoward, I am not sure what you said made any sense.
It’s a response to GFG. No one knows for sure from some secondary article. The investigation concluded no discrimination.
So why are some so hot that they found a smoking gun?
Same. I don’t think P-ton cares much what race your parents are are if you’re boring, you’re boring, if you’re interesting then you’re interesting.
Maybe they really liked THAT KID who had that racial background, not liked the kid BECAUSE of the racial background> Perhaps this kid expressed an interesting point of view to them. There is a difference.
You realize a pure meritocracy would yield a student body that is quite different from all rich white males, right?
How often do we really want to surround ourselves with people only based on pure merit? What do we do with friends, size them up? John’s scores weren’t perfect. he can’t come to dinner? Lol. Or heaven help us if we invite an athlete. Will the rest of the table assume something?
Even a high school academic team looks for more than top stats.
These top colleges are not taking subpar kids who can’t make it through, just for flavor in the freshman class.
@ hebegebe , Read my entire comment, please, obviously I do agree. Correct?
@lookingfoward, Some kids decide to go to colleges that will allow them to be a big fish…, some kids decide to go to college to be challenged by being an average fish in a big pond. The athletes that have also worked hard to be an average fish in an ivy deserve their acceptance at a top university. Colleges are expensive and the best Academic achievers deserve to be challenged academically. Irregardless of their hooks.
We will never know how much weight was given to a student’s ethnic “flavor,” (their word, not mine) but we do know for a fact based on the documents Princeton released that admissions officers put comments about that personal quality in their notes on the candidate. We also know that several admissions officers expressed that they’d be more enthusiastic about admitting a particular candidate if the student’s cultural mix were more interesting / the student had talked more about his cultural background. This implies to me that the academic requirements for admission were met by those particular candidates, and now they were looking at other aspects of their desirability.
We may think that’s a good thing, or not. It doesn’t matter. It’s murky and that murkiness is what can cause resentment. If a kid had better grades, higher scores, national level awards, etc. etc. and another student didn’t, well then OK. But if one kid was presumed to be more “interesting” because he had mixed parentage and that made the difference between admitting him over an equally academically qualified “standard” minority student? Not so okay.
I think it’s clear from those quotes, Princeton wants to keep some information about how it weighs and assesses various factors in admissions non-public. Princeton fears making that information public would give applicants the ability to game the system. You might argue that’s good or bad for Princeton, or as public policy, but the quotes seem straightforward to me. Perhaps, you’ve got a different interpretation or perhaps, I missed the point you were originally trying to make with your comment.
@ TheGFG, Your point on the article makes sense. My child does speak a second language because I decided that his father should speak Italian to him. I also learned Italian while reading Italian childrens books to him from infancy. His essay was based on cooking with his Uncles in their restaurants in Italy and how the Italian culture of food has shaped him. So, You are correct, my Son made it off the waitlist @ Princeton, because of cultural diversity, describing his real life, which is rather interesting if you like Italian food. Cultural diversity might be a waitlist game changer.
I hope he isn’t resented or stigmatized for making the best Neapolitano Pizza and Cacio di Pepe pasta while studying in International Relations, Physics and Chinese language certification.
Just remember, they’re submitting a full app and a supp. There’s rarely one single element that can cancel out another issue.
I don’t think it’s as simple as cultural diversity. Spread that on CC and next year, we’ll have umpteen thousand essays trying to express their cultural uniqueness. Instead, think about “perspective.” That works a few ways.
It all boils down to how the kid self-presents, in whole. And for that college, not the high school.
Screen, your son’s essay sounds delightful. Somewhat a bold choice, which, in itself, speaks well. Not just the diversity; but the individual he is.
@thegfg let’s go to the source…
https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/documents/3727885-Part-5-17-01302-F.html
“Neat blend” could easily refer to a half Hispanic kid attending a Korean school, since that’s what it actually says. Which IMO is more about an interesting life experience than an ethnicity.
How about the other examples, like the Puerto Rican kid it was tough to get excited about because he didn’t talk about his cultural background. Hmm, is including one’s cultural background in the essay a secret admissions requirement? So despite being a URM, the student didn’t get any admissions advantage from that because he failed some hidden test Princeton devised to see how truly Puerto Rican he really was? Some candidates were dinged for lacking “cultural flavor.” Again, was that a requirement Princeton never told the applicants would give them a boost? A kid can make himself more interesting by playing the didgeridoo instead of the clarinet, by starting a business selling origami jewelry rather than working as a cashier at Shop Rite, by studying Akkadian in his free time own instead of playing video games, but he can’t do anything about his ethnic background nor the cultural flavor of his family. Hence, possible resentment.
On the issue of negative attitudes towards athletes based on resentment of the admissions “athlete hook” – how often do those judging these athletes do research to figure out if the athlete was actually helped in the admissions process or got in his own? Not all athletes are official recruits- some get in on their own merit and random good luck and THEN join their respective sports teams. Do the “judges” consider that or do they simply collect everybody with the same label into the same bucket? This, of course, is ignoring the reality that MANY high level athletes are also very successful in the classroom. Hard work is hard work, after all.
@roethlisburger What public high school is spending 20 to 40 MILLION dollars a year on sports?
A Puerto Rican applicant would have the same critiria as an US main-land applicant. The cultural aspect is of their choosing. I did not help my kid in any aspect of his application. He chose all of his essays, I read them after he submitted them. Many parents that I spoke with after the application process admitted that they mostly wrote and applied for their kids. I am proud that my child did it on his own. Yea, he was only accepted to Princeton out of the 4 Ives that he applied to including Stanford. He was also accepted to great Universities ,UNC Chapel hill, NYU, UMiami , and BU. He did it all by himself. There was a time when Italians were considered as Trump considers Muslims and Mexicans.
Is there some secret list of requirements to get into P-ton where this is omitted?
A kid can’t change his/her ethnicity but a kid CAN change how s/he presents it and talks about it in the app. That actually suggests that the part that no one can control is less important than the part everyone CAN control. Everyone has ethnic origins they can talk about in college essays.
@TheGFG , Hi again,
Puerto Rican applicants have the same chance as mainland US applicants. Except for the private school advantage.
I did not help my child at all during his applications. He insisted he could do it on his own. If he chose to describe his real life experience and it worked, then great. How would he know? Life’s is interesting. Express it. Someone at Princeton liked what he said even though 4 other Ives Including Stanford didnt accept his application. It’s like real-estate. It only takes one to see the value. It’s a risk and they will be paid.