<p>My daughters close friends were looking to apply to some fellowships to study. One of them is a star (actually if one Google him his achievement are all over the place). Last summer, he interned at JPM Morgan. Currently, he attends Sloan school in MIT. Beginning his school year, he wanted to apply to some of the prestigious fellowship. He is an extremely bright and well-accomplished kid. He has won many awards in MIT and is among one of the top student. He has excellent resume as he has won many top high school scholarships awards for his community service. He has been dedicated for this cause from say maybe last 13 years. When he went to MIT career office, they told him that his internship at JP Morgan practically ruined his chances for Rhodes or Marshall. Had he not done so, he would have been an excellent candidate. Similar thing also happened to a senior who was recommended for Rhodes and Marshall. However, he was told that his chances were not good due to I-banking internship. Other kids who are at Harvard, Yale and Princeton, say that choosing I-banking career hurts the student chances for fellowships. Does I-banking internship really hurts once chance for any prestigious fellowships? I am just wondering.</p>
<p>Friday, Daughter accepted a summer internship at an I-Bank. She currently attends Harvard.</p>
<p>I don’t know that it would ‘hurt’ but it’s unlikely to help. Those sorts of highly prestigious and highly competitive fellowships are often looking for people with amazing credentials and a strong sense of service and leadership. In that regard you can see how (all else being equal) someone who spent a summer at JP Morgan doesn’t exactly hold water against someone who volunteered to work with underprivileged kids or did a lot of charity work.</p>
<p>Since students have to be nominated for those scholarships by the colleges they attend, the colleges have the option of deciding who to support. My guess is that are most interested in nominating students who have excelled in EC activities in which they recieve no $$ compensation.</p>
<p>MIT kid is attending MIT on a nearly full financial aid. His involvement in charity work does not start in 9th or 10th grade. This kid has won at more than 10 awards on national level for volunteer work. </p>
<p>I have to delete additional information this information to hide his identity.</p>
<p>Many of these kids are involved in extracurricular activities where they put more than 35-40 hours each week besides their academic workload. They do not do ECs for the sake of resume, they do it because they love the ECs they are involved.</p>
<p>To the OP’s question-- I don’t know if that’s true or not. What I find incongruous is the idea that a prestigious fellowship committee would completely dismiss a student who not only excels in leadership roles, possesses “amazing credentials and a strong sense of service,” but who also takes on a real-world paid internship-- one that most likely leans heavily on his/her major area of study. That simply suggests a well-rounded, smart, and talented student to me. I suspect you have to be at the top of your game, on many levels, to even secure one of those highly competitive internships. If taking that on would truly hurt a student’s chances in being awarded a prestigious fellowship-- well, I don’t know-- is it a fellowship one would really want?</p>
<p>I would say this kid is an exception. Make him apply anyway and see what happens.</p>
<p>Janiblue </p>
<p>I also thought so what you are saying. But I do not know the facts and that is why I am asking this question. MY daughter seems to be puzzled by this information.</p>
<p>The advice given by the fellowship office would seem to be off in my mind so long as there are plenty of other achievements on record.</p>
<p>As I said earlier, I’m quite confident that it wouldn’t ‘hurt’ an application just saying that it might not be seen as ‘as impressive’ as some other things… that’s all. If you look at the profiles of some of those awarded those fellowships you’ll see what I’m talking about (e.g. a summer internship vs. starting up ones own charity and running that for the summer). </p>
<p>If he has a very strong record and is interested in one of those fellowship then by all means go for it. Although as one mentioned you do need to be nominated by your school first and that seems to be the point of resistance. </p>
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<p>It sounds like any bias here is coming from the school and not the fellowship selection committees. Again, it’s not a case of hurting ones chances just a case that whilst an IBanking internship is certainly impressive it’s not as impressive as some of the things that the selected winners have achieved during their college summers… that’s all.</p>
<p>proudamerican007: Look at the websites that lists the bios of recent Rhodes Scholars and Marshall Scholars. I read them briefly a month or so ago, and I’m almost positive I saw IB internships (or an internship equivalent) on a few of them. </p>
<p>I have to add here, too, that if someone starts up his/her own charity and runs it for the summer (as in the above example)-- well, he or she better have some good business sense and know-how to write grants, do some serious fundraising, etc., to obtain the capital for such an admirable undertaking.</p>
<p>rocketman :</p>
<p>His ECs are one of the top line I have ever seen in a kid. I have to delete the ECs laudndry list in order to hide the identity. But it invloves politics, volunteer work abroad with unprovilaged kids, This all is being financed through private scholarhips as this kids parents have no money to finanace these activities.</p>
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<p>As I said, it certainly sounds like he should go for it… but it’s the school not me that has to nominate him! ;-)</p>
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<p>Not everyone has started up their own charity but some have done things like that, and did all the things you mentioned, hence one of the reasons they were selected. </p>
<p>At that high level of competition everyone has near perfect grades and lists of various awards so the selection committees are looking for truly exceptional things that really separate out the truly exceptional individuals. There’s an interview aspect too so how one presents themselves and deals with that pressure is also a part of the equation.</p>
<p>rocketman08: Of course. Those are givens. I’m just saying that I do not think paid internships for one summer (or part of one summer) will prevent one from doing well in these types of fellowships. If the school has a problem nominating a student who has done this-- well, that’s their issue, and that might be where the problem is-- but I do not believe an IB paid summer internship would be a drawback (all other things being equal) to a prestigious fellowship committee.</p>
<p>Uhhhh. Assuming for a second that the internship would be poorly received by the scholarship committee (which I ain’t buying) - why would I mention the internship at all? Had I spent a summer bar-hopping in the Keys I wouldn’t mention that if I thought it would derail my chances. Why would I mention this? </p>
<p>Sometimes what we leave out of an app is just as important as what we put in.</p>
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<p>I think I made it quite clear that I didn’t think there was any negative impact so there isn’t any disagreement. I simply just said that in a side-by-side comparison it wouldn’t necessarily be at the top of the list for ‘most impressive thing to do over a summer’ that’s all. A negative impact and a lack of a strong positive impact are not the same thing… </p>
<p>Someone can do an internship and still have lots of other impressive things on their CV and put together a strong application, so doing an internship most certainly doesn’t disqualify one from applying (which is what the original question was about).</p>
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<p>I agree with you that I don’t think it would be poorly received. However, if you spent 10 weeks or more at a paid IB summer internship, that’s most likely the summer before your senior year, so omitting what you did in that summer would look very questionable to me. Securing a highly competitive paid internship and working 60+ hours a week during your summer months isn’t exactly the same thing as “summer bar-hopping in the Keys.” </p>
<p>I completely agree that “what we leave out of an app is just as important as what we put in,” and leaving out of that application what you spent the majority of your summer doing, before senior year, would definitely throw up a red flag (for me, anyway).</p>
<p>janie, are you clairvoyant, too? I didn’t read that the internship was “10 weeks or more” (although that is reasonable). Even assuming there was a 10-week internship there could still be other summer opps to write about. As an example someone could leave the country on a total immersion language program and ALSO spend 10 weeks shadowing doctors/working at doctor’s offices and a week preparing for a peer mentoring experience (if I’m doing the weeks right in my head from memory). From what the OP posted I would assume the rest of the MIT student’s summer was spent doing something worthwhile. Maybe even things that could be done simultaneously. But your assumption may be correct. I don’t know. </p>
<p>BTW I really can’t imagine that anyone could believe that I was suggesting that bar-hopping the Keys and a JP Morgan internship were equivalent.
My goodness. What was that all about? LOL. </p>
<p>And for what it’s worth , I was trying to speak not only to the OP but to a larger audience who may have a similar situation. Just leave it out. You don’t have to include everything on every app, and that certainly applies to things that would be perceived as a negative. Pick and choose. Customize. Put your best foot forward. As always - just an opinion, but it’s my opinion. ;)</p>
<p>I was still attempting to edit my response when the edit timer again came in conflict with these bear paws I have as hands. This is a more complete response.
Now. Is everybody clear? LOL.</p>
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<p>First of all, it is safe to assume that MIT values the Rhodes and Marshall fellowships as much as any other school. Sandbagging an excellent candidate makes NO sense whatsoever. We can also safely assume that they have gained a wealth of insider’s knowledge and experience in evaluating the MOTIVATION of candidates to WIN the prestigious awards. The role of MIT’s gatekeepers in reviewing possible candidates is to segregate the students who view their participation as getting another notch on their belt or another scholastic trophy from students who clearly are looking at furthering their education and benefitting society in general. </p>
<p>Not knowing this particular candidate, it’s hard to speculate about the impact of having participated in an IB summer program. My take is that this candidate must have shown overwhelming evidence of a clear desire to be more of an investment banker than a scholar. </p>
<p>MIT might have felt or known (based on past experience) that such candidates do not pass the final and all important interviews with flying colors. Although such awards are extremely prestigious, seeking them solely for the … prestige is a fool’s errand.</p>
<p>I’d say MIT was polite.</p>
<p>I do fellowship advising NOT at MIT - I would agree with MIT folks that someone who has done an IB internship does not make the strongest Rhodes/Marshall candidate. To quote from the Rhodes materials, among the qualities they look for is the candidate’s ability “to make an effective contribution to the world around them” . . . and that Rhodes scholars “would come to esteem the performance of public duties as [their] highest aim.” . . . “Scholars [should] play an influential part in the betterment of society . . …”</p>
<p>Interning at an IB can be (and often is) interpreted as being interested in personal betterment ($$$$$) rather than societal betterment. Is that fair or accurate? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. </p>
<p>At my (public) institution, we probably wouldn’t turn down a student for our internal review just because he/she had an IB internship, but the student would have a presumption to overcome during our internal deliberations.</p>
<p>I think the student’s achievements and goals must be looked at holistically. What else has the student done? Does the student plan to go into IB after graduation? (If yes, I think we’d be very reluctant to nominate, especially if we had other strong candidates which MIT no doubt has in spades.)</p>