Does IB prepare students for college significantly better, or is it just more work, in comparison to good quality non-IB college-prep course work, including AP courses for more advanced material that IB students would take in HL courses? This assumes students with similar high school academic credentials (grades, test scores).
However, the comparison years of enrollment were 2000-2002 (so graduation in 2004-2006 for four year graduates and 2006-2008 for six year graduates). IB graduates had slightly higher college GPAs (by 0.12 to 0.18 in first year, 0.02 to 0.08 at graduation). IB graduates had higher graduation rates from college (by 3.0% to 11.8% in four years, 1.3% to 7.4% in six years).
For the matching of the comparison group, intended major is not mentioned. But there is a table showing that interdisciplinary studies were more popular among IB graduates than among the comparison group, while biology, engineering, social studies, and psychology were similarly popular (obviously, there are lots of other majors, presumably including some more popular among the non-IB students).
Note also that the matching did not mention similar high school course selection in terms of how advanced the student was (e.g. matching a student who took IB math HL with one who took AP calculus BC in the same grade).
So, from this study, the IB graduates did better in college a decade or more ago, but not by that much. Is that difference worth the apparently large amount of extra work reported in most threads discussing IB programs? Are the study results still applicable today?
In my limited experience (n=1), IB was on balance a good thing for DS.
The bad: for an advanced math student, IB math HL was miserable, but required for the program.
The good: DS learned “reading list triage,” to figure out what he had to read carefully, what he could skim, and what he could ignore. This is an under-rated life skill, with application long after HS and college.
One study at UF(by the admissions folks), found that IB students had higher SAT scores (1213 vs 1177), and higher first year GPAs (3.3 vs 3.1). AP students had higher High Schools GPA’s (3.9, compare to the IB’s 3.8).
In general, a more rigorous program will better prepare a student for college, if for no other reason than it forces them to develop better study habits.
At high schools with IB programs, the IB program tends to be the most rigorous program at that high school, have the strongest group of students, and the best teachers, as compared to the AP programs in the same high schools.
The quality of IB programs tend to not vary as much as the quality of AP instruction on a school by school basis. Some AP programs are as rigorous if not more rigorous than IB programs, while other high schools have trouble getting students to score 3’s on the AP test.
I think these three factors would lead to IB students doing better, on average, in these studies. However, if my local High School had a strong AP program, I wouldn’t worry about it.
Everyone makes this decision based on their unique situation and circumstances. For my youngest, our research at the time led us to believe and decide that AP was stronger in math than IB. So we went with AP, she will be majoring in math next year in college, and we are happy with the decision.
Things may have changed (IB vs AP Math), more research is likely available now, and we could have been wrong but we are pleased. Academically strong kids will do well regardless of this decision so it’s not going to make or breaks most kids. Good luck!
I am not a big IB fan, but it does seem to prepare the students for college, especially writing. Is that because busy work is actually good for them? that writing a full paragraph rather than just labeling maps is better? That making map after map, chart after chart really does make them learn more? Is it because IB students tend to be good students overall and an AP student can pick a subject and just take that one class?
The IB programs my daughter looked at were very good, very rigid, no taking of AP courses, no non-IB student taking IB classes. When I asked if she could take an AP class, the director barked at me “WHY would anyone do that? NO.” These IB program were not offered at the top schools in the district but used to attract students to the second or third ranked high schools (top ranked had AP). They were magnet programs and used as true magnets, to attract students from outside the boundaries of the school. One thing I told my daughter when she was looking at the top program was that if she decided not to do IB, (9-10 grade was pre-IB, but run the same, separate classes, separate hallway, no mingling with the great unwashed ‘regular’ students, even AP) she’d have to change HS because the rest of this school offered nothing for her (very limited AP, pretty much a low ranked urban school). I spoke to the director of another magnet at our home boundary school (computers and media) and it was interesting because his daughter had gone to the IB magnet. He said she was so burned out by doing all the work, including busy work, that she was dragging in college because she was just plain sick of school. He said he’d never recommend it to anyone even though his daughter was successful.
I think my daughter would have learned a lot in IB, especially writing. She would have been miserable because she hates reading and writing and would have wanted more science and math than offered. In the district we ended up in (not the one described above as we moved), the IB program was at a very low rated high school, probably number 4 out of the 6 high schools in the district. She would not have wanted to attend that school - their sports teams weren’t good.
Most of my friends who do IB scored lower on standardized tests (coming from comparable 8th grade EXPLORE scores) and have lower GPAs and have more life stress than myself and my AP friends. I feel like IB does prepare kids for college better though.
Students at my full-IB school tend to perform well in college, and have SAT scores well above the average. I find this remarkable, as our school’s admissions policy is defined by an inclusiveness that verges on do-gooderism (Simply put, as long as you’re next on the list, all you need is a pulse). My class of 80-90 students includes:
-10 to 15 kids with mild, moderate, or in some cases severe dyslexia;
-Half a dozen students who arrived reading more than a year below their grade level;
-A pair of special-needs students; and, last but not least;
-Two students who - in the view of everyone who knows them save their parents, who also happen to be school employees - belong in psych wards.
I don’t know how much of this can be credited to the IB program - it may have more to do with a few teachers whose ability to disprove the saying “You can’t make chicken salad out of chicken …” astounds me.
^^I think it is much more that the class size is 90 and not 900. With a small school, fewer kids fall through the cracks. Hard to hide, hard to not do the work when there are 15 people in your math class, or 20 in your English class.
S was in an IB program which also offered AP courses. I noticed that the AP courses focused on preparing for the AP test. This meant, for example, in AP US History, a lot of practice with DBQs (document based questions–read something and answer a few questions about it) rather than writing a term paper. The different assessment approaches lead to differences in the way courses are taught. IB wins hands down in this comparison–significant writing, oral presentations, etc. were a required part of the IB program in addition to the tests that both IB and AP have. S’s school has had a large IB program since the 80s and they have made good use of all that experience to learn how to offer an excellent program. In particular, I never felt like he was doing busy work, and they offered plenty of science classes.
My older child attended a high school and took their IB classes, while my younger child attended a high school and took their AP classes. So I feel I have some basis of comparison. I was appalled that the “AP child” was not asked to write one research paper in 4 years of high school, whereas the “IB child” had to write one or more. If only on that basis, I would say IB is the more rigorous and useful college preparatory path. How do you tout a course as equivalent to a college course and not require a paper?
I guess it really depends on the school, at our school IB kids often take both AP exams and IB exams. We also have strong Math - IB kids can take AP Calc and HL Math. IB Science may be a little weaker as we don’t have a calculus based physics option.
At Ds school kids can take just a few IB classes or go all in for the whole diploma. IB can also take any AP classes they have room for on their schedule.
As far as the workload, I’m not sure. IB totally clicks with my kid so even though there is a lot of work I will say it doesn’t seem like nearly as much busy work as the AP classes her friends are in. For at least two of her classes, there is no graded homework, rarely a quiz. They have major papers due and tests. No homework and no assignments of handwritten notes (i.e. APUSH) means she is free to actually learn the material–which is more like real world college IMO.
We do not have IB classes at our high school. When frazzled kids were in high school, they took AP classes and were required to write research papers for several of these. I suspect that most of these classes went beyond a minimal AP curriculum.
They also had lots of homework that was graded by hand.
IB works well for a very specific kind of child. My son loves it (except moments like this weekend where he forgot to save the notes for his English IOP.) It is a lot of work but I’ve never felt it was busy work. There is a heavy emphasis on critical thinking, research, writing and oral presentation.
Not every kid does well in the program, of course, but most drop before the pinning ceremony junior year where they become “full” IB candidates. Between freshman year and junior year, we probably lost at least 10% of the class.
Depends on the school – at my kid’s IB program, he works hard, at real work – no busy work there. Writing weekly about the literature they are reading, reading college texts, not textbooks, for IB History etc. The amount of work, with the regular internal assessments, is really demanding. It has been a challenge for my kid, but as a parent, I see the value.
Every school, every interview, college reps mentioned IB is strong preparation for successful transition to college. They also remarked that IB kids are well-rounded, with essentially a liberal arts high school preparation, plus the demands of CAS and the Extended Essay. For my kid, who was focusing only on LACs and is not a STEM kid, it was the perfect fit. Not that it kept him from complaining about the workload, however.
The IB Diploma prepares you for the rigor of college.
The IB Diploma is the most rigorous course load you can take at your school. If you don’t do the diploma, will your GC mark on your transcript that you have done the most rigorous program? Is that something useful for the colleges you are interested in?
Some schools give you more college credit because you have taken the diploma over just IB classes, leading you to being able to graduate earlier, study abroad, finish a Masters sooner.
eg. at SUNY Binghamton:
Students in the International Baccalaureate Diploma Program may receive up to 32 credits. To receive the full 32 credits, the following conditions must be met:
The IB Diploma must be completed with a score of 30 or more points; and
The student must complete at least three Higher Level exams with a score of 5 or higher.
Diploma holders who meet these conditions receive credit for their individual exam scores plus additional liberal arts elective credit to total 32 credits.
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I am not sure how one would go about statistically comparing AP and IB because the programs are different, AP is a la carte and IB has the diploma sequence. Are they comparing IB diploma registrants vs. anyone who has taken an AP course? Realize that only the top students will register for the IB diploma sequence.
@bopper - The AP course sequence can also result in 32 credits at Bing, it is not specific to IB.
It depends on how the AP classes are taught - our AP history classes all had term papers. I like a lot of things about the IB program, including the emphasis on writing, but do know of a number of kids who seemed burnt out by the time they got to college. For a STEM oriented kid the AP approach is usually the better choice.