Does my undergraduate school determine my chances at getting into a good post-grad PhD program for physics? [Virginia Tech]

I will likely be committing to Virginia Tech very soon (later today) however I have been hesitant for a couple of reasons.

  1. I am currently waitlisted for astrophysics at Barnard/Columbia, UMich, UVA and UW-Madison, among others, but I am seeking financial aid so it seems like those may be lost causes, and I’m OK with that. My family and I were just waiting to see if those WLs had any movement but so far it seems like mostly full-pay students are being admitted, so it’s time to move on.
  2. I do not know much about the physics department at VT. My ultimate goal is to perform well academically at VT, hopefully obtain good research opportunities, and hopefully score some interesting internships over the summer breaks, while having a good “well-rounded” college experience at an affordable state school. Would this all be possible? Is the VT physics program reputable/strong enough to land good research and strong connections with passionate professors to hopefully help set me up for post-grad admissions?

I am here to seek a bit of insight if anyone has any. Neither of my parents had a conventional American college application process so I do not have anything to work off of right now. It’s been a very rough application process and now I just need reasons to be fully happy with attending VT. It’s definitely not where I initially saw myself ending up but I am very grateful for my acceptance and I am finding new reasons to love it more every day. I appreciate any replies I get and especially any support. Thanks!

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Absolutely!!! Study hard, establish relationships with profs by going to office hours, let people know early and often that you are interested in summer internship opportunities, take advantage of all that college has to offer, and most of all enjoy yourself! Basically do all the things a good student should do at any college. VT will provide you all the opportunities you need while also being affordable.

Best wishes to you!

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Depends on the grad school but Va Tech is not going to hold you back and is certainly on par with U Mich, UVA and Madison in regards to these opportunities.

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In no way will attending VaTech hold you back. It is a widely respected university.

Your post-graduate opportunities will be determined by what you accomplish during your college years. Work hard, develop relationships with professors, pursure opportunities that interest you, and have some fun along the way.

Congrats on VaTech. Now go forth and make the most of this wonderful opportunity.

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“Determine” is definitely the wrong word.

But yes, usually to be considered for top PhD programs, no matter where you go for college, you have to be one of the most outstanding students in your department in your class. What that means depends on the field, but it almost always includes having one or more professors really willing to go to bat for you, and then usually some form of relevant outstanding work in your field.

All that is possible from any decent department across many different colleges. However, I do think realistically, some colleges/departments are going to be able to place more people in a given year. Indeed, for some colleges/departments, they may only get a top PhD program placement every few years, and others may get several almost every year.

One obvious factor in that is just size–how many professors, how many students, and so on in that department.

But then I also think there are sometimes per capita differences as well. But then some of that is just things like where do high academic fliers with PhD ambitions choose in the first place. Like, Chicago and Swarthmore place really well in Physics PhD programs per capita, but is that because Chicago and Swarthmore take random students and turn them into Physics PhD applicants? No, it is mostly because if you are a kid seriously interested in a possible Physics PhD, and you are on track to be that sort of applicant, and you can get admitted to and can afford Chicago or Swarthmore, you are relatively likely to choose Chicago or Swarthmore! Whereas other sorts of kids have zero interest in Chicago or Swarthmore.

OK, but then even controlling for that, is it maybe a bit easier at some colleges to get the support you need for top PhD admissions? And I think the answer is . . . maybe?

If so, I do think it would largely be a function of being able to develop those necessary professor relationships, and I think that would help explain why so many small independent colleges with low student to professor ratios (aka LACs) do so well in per capita PhD studies, followed by no-more-than-medium-sized private research universities with similarly low student to professor ratios. Then the large public research universities can do OK in gross terms, but rarely compete in per capita terms, and I think that makes sense when you think about competition to really develop those necessary professor relationships. So, like, in terms of Physics PhD placement, Cal is way ahead of Chicago gross, even more so Swarthmore, but Chicago is way ahead of Cal per capita, and then Swarthmore is ahead of even Chicago. That sort of thing.

OK, so are you doomed if you go to a large public? No, of course not, many people will go from there to top PhD programs! I just think you have to be aware of what the competition will look like, and be ready to do what it takes to get where you need. And ready for Plan B if it doesn’t work out (but that is true everywhere anyway).

So to me, it sounds like you know the deal. Not least at Virginia Tech, you’ll have to be prepared to hustle from the start to maximize your chances. And it may not work out, or indeed you may change your plans, which is fine (I could tell you a whole story about what eventually persuaded me not to keep pursuing a Physics PhD, but suffice it to say I considered that a VERY rational choice). But if you start with the right mindset at Virginia Tech, it definitely MIGHT work out, so give it a shot.

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Regarding Waitlists, if you commit to Virginia Tech and later get off the waitlist somewhere with enough aid that the offer works out for you, you are allowed to withdraw from VT and commit to the new school. However, you will likely lose your deposit at VT.

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Yeah, I am aware of that, but I am just mentally moving on from the waitlists because it seems as though I have a very slim chance of getting off of any of them. My SAI is at around 28k which means I would need decent aid (and not all of my waitlist schools even meet full need, so I could probably scratch those off anyways) and most of them are also need aware so they’ll probably prefer to take another physics student who’s full-pay over me. So now just looking for reasons to love VT and reassurance that I can be successful and maybe even fulfill my childhood dream of attending Princeton (yes I am aware their PhD program would be nearly impossible to get into, but let me have something to work for! Lol).

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Sounds like a good plan and even better mindset!

All the best to you!

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Great that you are looking forward now. There are many reasons to love VaTech.

All best wishes for happy and successful college experience.

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VTech is a very reputable university (and if you were aiming for Columbia etc, you probably got into the Honors college).

  • if you’re in a big lecture, sit in the first 3 rows, right in the middle, in front of the professors’ platform/desk. Do NOT sit in the back.
  • go to office hours every week, starting the 1st week to start the habit. To prepare for office hours (which are like mini one on one sessions in addition to the main class) during the lecture and when doing your hw, reading/working on problems etc, write questions&confusions in the margins : not sure you understand x, got z wrong and don’t know why, find point Y super interesting is there something you could read about it (etc).
    Hopefully the professor will recognize you from seeing you sitting in front of her/him and coming regularly. (Do remember they may have 300 or 400 students :wink: ).
  • in a small or Honors class, always prepare something to contribute but also listen and be ready to bounce off what others said - not as easy asnit sounds.
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Check the outcome reports for your major on the VT and UVA sites. I have a feeling they are very similar. I looked them up for a science major for my daughter, and they were comparable. My guess is that the schools will be comparable for you too. If it helps, know that a lot of TJ kids go to VT. Its one of the top destinations, along with UVA and a few other schools.

We did have more typical mostly American college experience, so I will give my opinion based on our experiences. Between my wife, my two daughters, and I, all of us were in STEM fields, although none of us majored in physics (I did take two years of physics through quantum physics and my first full time job was at a cyclotron).

Virginia Tech is very good. A degree from VT can set you up for a good career and for admissions to strong graduate programs.

This is a very good plan. Research experience and internships are indeed important. Doing very well in your classes, particularly in your major (and also in math and CS), and getting to know your professors can be quite helpful in several ways, including making it easier to get good internship and research opportunities. Getting a bachelor’s degree at a very good and affordable university is also a good plan. Avoiding or minimizing debt is a good plan, particularly going into a field where graduate school is likely.

There are a lot of very good professors at a very wide range of universities, including VT. There are a few bad professors at a wide range of universities, even including the very top ranked schools.

We also have some experience with graduate school admissions (ranging from way back in the 1970’s or 80’s when my wife and I were in graduate school, to recently with our youngest just about to start a PhD program later this year). In our experience the other students at top ranked graduate programs come from a very, very wide range of undergraduate schools, many of which are definitely ranked lower than VT.

One thing my daughter did in applying to PhD programs was I think a very good thing that helped her quite a bit. She knew what research area she wanted to focus on. She read papers in the field and looked at what research was being done by professors at specific schools. She mentioned this work in her essays in applications (which of course means that essays were tailored to each PhD program). Before she had her interviews, she knew who she would be interviewing with and re-read their papers so she would be able to intelligently discuss what the professors were doing, and how this fit into her research plans. This is however something that you do not need to worry about for at least four years, and possibly longer.

I think that this is exactly right. You are already in at a very good and affordable university. Focus on Virginia Tech, and plan to do very well as a student there.

None of us attended Princeton. However, several of us attended graduate programs which are ranked about the same (eg, Stanford). The other students in the same programs came from a very, very wide range of undergraduate universities. What did they have in common? Very strong references; High undergraduate grades particularly in their major and related fields; Good relevant experience (research experience or clinical experience depending upon the graduate program); Good test scores. Also, good references (yes I did say this twice, it is important).

VT can get you where you want to go. However, you will need to do very well at VT to have a shot at a graduate program on the level of Princeton.

A couple of other things that I will mention based on my personal experience studying physics and working in physics research. One is that you might not want to count on majoring in physics until you at least get through quantum physics. In my experience at least through special relatively physics is very real. It makes sense and can be verified with quantitative experiments. At some point it runs into things that cannot be verified through experiments, and it changes and at least to me became much less real. This was the point where I decided to major in something else (mathematics). Also, at least with cyclotrons and radio telescopes, physics experiments produce a lot of data, and this data is analyzed using a lot of mathematics and a lot of computers. As such math and computer science are important for someone studying physics. Differential equations, linear algebra, probability and statistics are all very useful to someone studying or working in physics. Data structures and various types of algorithms are also useful. Taking the related math and computer science classes, and doing well in them, will both be useful to a physics major, and will provide potential alternate majors in case you change your mind at some point.

And you can this at VT. You have a great and affordable admissions to a great university. Congratulations and best wishes!

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And, take advantage of opportunities for undergraduate research – that will not only allow you to have one or more professors get to know you and your work (and increase the chances for getting a good faculty recommendation), but it will help with your in-class learning experiences as well.

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^ yes, very very true.
After a few weeks diligently sitting in the front row and going to office hours, feel free to ask your professors if there are any opportunities in a lab in their dept. It may just be washing beakers while grad students eye how carefully you handle material and follow instructions but it’ll be your foot in the door - your way to prove what you can be entrusted with.
There may also be talks/lectures by faculty: you can go and listen. If the Honors college organizes a get together : go and shake hands, chat, ask what the research is about, how they got into it, etc.
Remember, professors LOVE what they do. They love talking about it, they love meeting students who are interested or ask questions, etc.
(Btw it means having just one pair of slacks or khakis+a shirt with buttons or a blouse in your dorm closet. Will come in handy a couple times a semester.)

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However, quantum mechanics has been shown to be more reliably predictive than classical physics in many experimental and applied realms. Nonetheless, some sub-areas of modern physics, such as string theory and speculative cosmology, may not offer strong prospects for experimental verification.

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To give context - I looked at Harvard’s grads in Physics so the top of the top and here’s what I see:

I’m a graduate of Washington and Lee University in Lexington, VA, with a B.S. in Physics

She grew up in Bend, Oregon and got her B.S. at the University of Oregon in 2018.

received my B.S. in Physics at the University of Puerto Rico Mayaguez.

received my B.S. in physics and mathematics from University of Arizona

he received her B.A. from Mount Holyoke College where she majored in Physics

I completed my B.S. in physics from Rutgers University (go knights).

Yes, they had a few Chicago, a Michigan, an MIT - but you’ll be just fine!!!

And there’s lots of places to get PhD in Physics.

Go get em - if you make it happen, then it can happen!!!

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It does not really matter where you go to undergrad. My daughter graduated with a BS in engineering from a school that was ranked 119 when she attended. However, she had a 3.98 GPA, has great internships, and then when to work for an aerospace company. She is now getting her PHD at a top 10 University fully funded. Having exceptional grades makes the difference

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Don’t forget that you are training to be a scientist, and not just gunning for a grad program in physics.

That means being voracious about your classes- all of your classes. Great scientists are curious- and not just in their own discipline, they are curious about everything. Great scientists know how to connect the dots on seemingly unrelated phenomena- which means reading, learning as much as you can about the world. Great scientists know they are standing on the shoulders of giants, so that means taking your non-science classes seriously- history, econ, poli sci, literature.

Your professors will be eager to teach someone who is at college to learn and stretch and grown. Show up as that person and you will really soar. Good luck!

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Have a few physicists in my family of various ages and understand that undergrad physics programs are pretty much standardised not just in the US, but around the world - grad school is where it’s at.

Also, physicists are a pretty self selective crowd and self select further in the upper level classes the way a PP has described, on the basis of whether they feel that it’s their way of thinking and describing the world or not (which is not the same thing as weeding out because they struggle or fail, which also happens of course).

This means that the selectivity of the school doesn’t make as much difference in the quality of the department or the competence and motivation of your peers.

You will often read here that college is what YOU make of it and I think in many subjects that’s a disingenuous trope because I have seen first hand the huge difference it makes in some humanities subjects. The physicists I know don’t share that experience, so assume that in your case it’s true, shine in your department and go places!

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