<p>This is concerning public universities since there’s not much difference between OOS and IS in privates schools.</p>
<p>I would think that the higher number of OOS students that a schools has, the better the school is since more students would be willing to pay higher tuition rates. UMich has a fairly high number with 31% (according to USNews) and their OOS tuition and quality is comparable to that of private schools. But, UT-Austin has an extremely low number with around 7%, even though some say its public ivy. Is there a correlation here is or are colleges just following a quota?</p>
<p>I would wonder if it has something to do with the money. Given that umich makes twice as much off an OOS student as an IS, it is certainly beneficial to take as many of them as they can get away with.</p>
<p>I also would wonder if things like the common app could adjust OOS levels. I think schools get a lot more OOS applicants by being on the common app than they would otherwise.</p>
<p>Schools that a financially stressed are purposely raising the number of OOS to get the higher tuition. Of course, they run the risk of their respective legislatures lowering the amount of tax dollars they get if they educate fewer in-state students or having the leg, set caps. UT is a great school that could accept a lot more OOS, bur they seem dedicated to educating the best and brightest of TX.</p>
<p>Part of it has to do with quotas, so just viewing the OOS number by itself provides only limited information about the quality of a school.</p>
<p>I’m sure UT would have a much higher percentage if they changed their policy of limiting OOS students. Another example might be SUNY Binghamton, which doesn’t open the floodgates to OOS applicants. (Although there certainly have been complaints that OOS students are taking up the places that should rightfully go to New Yorkers.)</p>
<p>My DD is at University of Delaware - OOS. It has a very high % of OOS students, but probably a different situation that UMich. They have a stated commitment to Delaware residents, but it is such a small state. It is quite competitive to get in from OOS - especially if you are from NY or NJ; less so (I believe) for in-state because they do want to serve their own residents. From what I know, this is unlike SUNY Bing, which is more competitive for in-state than OOS.</p>
<p>For DD, it is a good fit. The large OOS means people from more diverse geographic areas (especially as compared to going to a SUNY).</p>
<p>My state gets OOS students from NJ because they don’t have a lot of good well priced publics. Ours may be a bit higher, but not much and there is no edge for being a PA resident. When I toured University of Delaware with my daughter we were told that the same was true there. NC publics have a limited amount of seats for OOS students but they are a real deal, even at OOS prices and I know a few families at my son’s HS that have kids at NC state U’s. Getting into main campus for Penn State is harder (and about the same price) then going to UNC-Wilmington for PA residents.</p>
<p>Bottom line, for many that have expensive public’s in our home state’s, it’s reasonable to look at lower priced OOS State U’s - they may be less expensive and easier to get into.</p>
<p>Some states have limits on OOS students (such as 18% at UNC) and some very popular publics (like UVA and UMich) use OOS students as cash cows. The UCs, which are some of the best publics in the U.S., have very few OOS students. I agree with LINYMOM that the opportunity to have a geographically diverse peer group is an asset.</p>
<p>Hmm, maybe this points to a partial answer for the UCs to their cash woes. Might not please all the residents of the state, but my understanding is that the UC financial situation is quite dire right now.</p>
<p>Not so fast, there. A few things to consider:</p>
<ol>
<li> Some states are simply more populous than others. As noted above, Delaware’s a small state - its ability to fill a university with its own residents is simply different from, say, California’s, who can fill many universities with their own residents.</li>
<li> Different states have different regulations regarding how many OOS student spots can be open. Some states view their state school as primarily to educate their own in-staters and aren’t very open to OOS’ers, even if they bring higher tuition payments. Other states have a broader definition.</li>
<li> A school having a lot of OOS’ers may mean that it’s <em>appealing</em> - which is different from being <em>good.</em><br></li>
<li>Think of the geography of this country. In a lot of the big western states (I’m excluding California here), the state u’s are in places that simply aren’t very easy to get to – thus limiting their appeal to out-of-staters. That says nothing one way or the other about quality.</li>
<li> Attitudes towards state u’s are very different in parts of the country. In the Northeast, it’s historically been not as well regarded – in the Midwest, the best and brightest, including vals and sals, often go to the Big 10 schools. I can’t speak for the other parts of the country, except obviously the UC’s attract a lot of smart CA kids.<br></li>
<li> Some schools have tuition reciprocity with neighboring states (Wisc and Minnesota being an example) which means that the attraction of the other state’s school may be different versus if no such tuition reciprocity existed. </li>
</ol>
<p>Anyway, “state schools” is such a big tent – do you have specific ones in mind you’re thinking about?</p>
<p>We are OOS and visited UT Austin (Great school in a fabulous city). They explained that they have very few spots available for OOS students because of a rule that a certain number of Texas students get in automatically I think. It used to be the top 10% it might be the top 8% of Texas high schools students get in. That’s why there OOS numbers are low. Maybe someone else can explain it better. Michigan doesn’t have that rule.</p>
<p>THe UC financial situation is pretty bad and they have adjusted to admit more OOS. With respect the UCs, however, while OOS students seem to be willing to bite the bullet for OOS tuition to the top three (Berkeley, Los Angeles and San Diego), it’s much less so at the mid-tier and down UCs. Remember also that the UCs tend to be located in expensive areas as well (no, not all of them), thus the housing costs are higher than state schools in other parts of the country. I can understand this thinking. Why pay a private rate tuition for a mid-tier UC, especially when the financial situation is still in flux?</p>
<p>Michigan is ahead of the game in looking to wean itself off state funding, rightly predicting where the economy of that state might be going (and this was well in advance of this great recession.) Some other state school systems are looking closely at how they are doing it. In some cases, the flagship (say, in WI) is looking to break away from the school system. In other cases, grad and professional schools are trying to break away, as is the case with the Anderson Business School at UCLA.</p>
<p>midwestmom - In general, students graduating in the top 10% of their class are guaranteed acceptance at TX state schools. Obviously, UT and TX A&M are the biggest draws. And UT is often the first choice of many students. </p>
<p>In recent years, top 10%-ers made up around 80% of the incoming freshman classes at UT. So, some changes were made for UT only (effective for students entering in Fall 2011). Now, only 75% of the incoming class can be top 10%-ers. And, they start filling from the top (first the top 1%, then the top 2%, etc) - until 75% is reached. So, in essence, being in the top 9% or 10% of your class is no longer a guarantee of acceptance. And anyone not accepted automatically would be placed in regular applicant pool for admissions consideration. </p>
<p>One of the problems that many people have with this 10% rule is that not all schools are created equal. It’s very likely to have top 20% students in strong school districts who are better academically (GPA, test scores) than top 10% students in rural or lower performing districts. I have known families to move their kids to a different school just to guarantee the kids would be in the top 10%.</p>
<p>I don’t think you can assume that state schools with higher proportions of out-of-staters are the better ones. </p>
<p>Some state schools strictly limit the proportion of out-of-state students. The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, which is among the best state schools in the country, is one of them. On the other hand, the University of Delaware welcomes out-of-staters and has lots of them. Yet most people would agree that academically, UNC-Chapel Hill has a stronger reputation than Delaware.</p>
<p>It really depends on the school and it’s policies. Our D applied last year to two OOS publics: UVa and UNC. UNC’s student body is comprised of appx. 18% OOS students whereas UVa is around 28%. Both of these state schools’ charters have a cap on the number of OOS students they can accept; hence, competition for these coveted spots can be fierce. Most all accepted OOS candidates to these two schools (as well as Berkeley and UMich) are competitive for all top 20 schools; their stats are usually 3.9 UW+ / 2200+. You can read through past threads and see OOS students who were rejected at UVa, but accepted at Penn, Cornell, etc. NC and VA have amazing high schools and produce very strong students. The OOS students merely add a cultural diversity, IMO. D was accepted at both, but ultimately chose UVa because there were more OOS kids and the school itself was smaller.</p>
<p>The financial situation of the State of California is indeed dire, and everything is on the table for drastic spending cuts, including higher education. The UCs will have to take more out-of-state students to make ends meet, which of course leaves fewer slots for the children of tax-paying Californians. But unfortunately, taking more OOS and hiking tuition for in-staters (another proposal) will not close the gap. The UCs are also having to look at significant spending cuts – classes, programs, faculty, extras. Personally, I would not send my child to a UC as an OOS for the foreseeable future. The cost is comparable to the best of the private schools, without the assurance that my kid could get into English 101.</p>
<p>It would be intertesting to look at the OOS tuition charges vs. the % out of state students. If a university is charging a lot, relatively, but nevertheless still is able to attract a significant proportion from out of state, that could mean something. There may be other places that charge much less for OOS yet still can’t attract many people from out of state to attend (cough SUNY, cough cough).</p>
<p>But it’s all more complicated than that. OOS universities can be attractive to applicants for different reasons. Where I live, there are several OOS universities that are actually closer to our house than most of our in-state universities, have locations and/or atmospheres many find to be “better”, and have comparable academic reputations. The attractiveness of such places may depend on how good your in-state alternatives are, and how much each of them are charging. Then there are a few other universities that have ‘better’ academic reputations than our local choices, but are far away. Some have good honors colleges, others don’t. And some charge more, some less.</p>