Does this seem FAIR to you?

[FairPlay]

<p>I’m white and I stumbled onto this article from another thread.</p>

<p>Why is AA still into play? And if it is to level the playing field for minorities, then why are Asians not benefiting? Is it that races fault that a large majority of them have good grades? Same with white.</p>

<p>

Although private colleges and universities will usually not disclose data regarding the past or present academic performance of their students categorized by race (they are aware that such disclosure would document the huge racial preferences they grant and the resulting racial stratification of subsequent college grades), we can get a fairly good indication of what is going on by a look at some of the more prestigious public institutions which have been forced to disclose such data either by court order or action upon Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) petitions. The University of Michigan is perhaps the best case to look at since it has operated recently under the watchful eye of the federal courts since the 2003 Grutter decision rejected as too mechanical and not sufficiently individualized its previous policies of racial preferences. Michigan now apparently scrutinizes each applicant’s file more carefully but it is still up to its old tricks of counting “being Black” or “being Hispanic” as very huge “plus-factors” in making up its entering class. Indeed, the SAT gaps between recent Black and Hispanic admits, on the one hand, and Asian and Whites, on the other, has actually increased since Grutter. For those admitted to Michigan as undergraduates in 2004 the median SAT scores for the four major ethno-racial groups were as follows: Blacks 1160, Hispanics 1260, Whites 1350, Asians 1400.

</p>

<p>

A similar pattern can be seen at the University of Virginia, which published, under FOIA prodding, odds-ratios of being accepted for admissions in various academic years. UVA’s statistics show that in 2003 a Black student with an SAT score in the 950-1050 range had a substantially better chance of getting admitted to UVA than an Asian student with SAT scores in the 1250-1350 range. If a Black applicant had an SAT in the 1150-1250 range his chances of admission were about the same as an Asian student with a 1450-1550 SAT. The Black/White disparity in the odds-ratios of admission was even greater than the Black/Asian difference.

</p>

<p>You can read the full article [Is</a> There An Asian Ceiling? (Originals)](<a href=“http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2008/06/several_years_ago_a_koreanamer.html]Is”>http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2008/06/several_years_ago_a_koreanamer.html)</p>

[plue00]

<p>Good thing I dont want to go to Michigan, or I’d have to get a 1400 haha.</p>

<p>In all seriousness, yeah AA isn’t fair. IMO it wasn’t designed to be fair. Maybe in the future AA gets banned and all our future kids have equal opportunity at everything… or not.</p>

[jaimeastorga2000]

<p>No, it doesn’t seem fair at all. I am all for doing away with affirmative action. Even in places where this is ostensibly not practiced, the numbers show it is, and it would help ending this is the holistic admissions thing was stopped.</p>

[Millancad]

<p>Affirmative Action is definitely not fair. But before getting rid of it I think we need to decide as a country what diversity is worth. I wish that we could throw out AA and maintain, or even better, improve, racial percentages at elite colleges. I don’t want to look at my admission letters a year from now and wonder if I only got in because I checked the “African-American” box (I do have stats above all the white, Jewish, and Asian averages in the article though). When my sister’s friend rather rudely said that the reason my sister got into Northwestern and the friend’s brother, who was salutatorian, didn’t was that my sister’s black, I know it hurt more because we were all afraid it might be true. But at the same time, I don’t want to walk into an environment where 1% of the people look like me. And I don’t want to be forced to go to a historically black school in order to avoid that.
I don’t know what we should do in the immediate future, but I know that for the long term, we need to work on improving the primary and secondary school academic experience of blacks and Hispanics. That’s going to take a very, very long time.</p>

[LKei]

<p>Wow…that makes me think twice about applying to UVA…I don’t think race should have any part at all in getting into ANYTHING. Personally, I think they should take that identification field off of applications. Put everyone on an equal level. No special treatment for anyone, black, white, Asian, female, or male.</p>

<p>Those stats are disturbing actually. NO ONE of any race or ethnicity should ever get advantage over another for anything, especially something as important as college. </p>

<p>Higher education, of all things, should be an equal playing field for every participant, and should be awarded to those who demonstrate the best academic record, best personality (volunteers, leaders, friendly, active, focused, etc.), and ability to demonstrate via essay, ECs, interview, or in some other way, shape, or form, that they are ready to make an impact in the real world and pursue a successful future. </p>

<p>America needs to enforce this whole “equality” thing, because I’m honestly not seeing it…</p>

[ThisCouldBeHeavn]

<p>

America needs to enforce this whole “equality” thing, because I’m honestly not seeing it…

</p>

<p>This goes both ways…</p>

[quadonfait]

<p>if AA persists minority scores will not improve or improve as fast as if it was rejected.</p>

[DataBox]

<p>The first thing that should have taken place after Obama’s election was the abolishment of AA…</p>

[ThisCouldBeHeavn]

<p>

if AA persists minority scores will not improve or improve as fast as if it was rejected.

</p>

<p>That’s pure conjecture.</p>

[Arsenal0328]

<p>life isn’t fair, get used to it.</p>

<p>I don’t like AA, but I don’t see it changing anytime soon. Also it doesn’t effect me cause I got into the school I wanted :D</p>

[tomjonesistheman]

<p>gahhhh i hate Affirmative Action!! college acceptances should be based purely on merit!!</p>

[King818]

<p>Like I’ve said in another thread, it’s socially ok to be racist against white people. Affirmative action is a joke. Complete double standard.</p>

[quadonfait]

<p>FairPlay
New Member</p>

<p>Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 0 </p>

<p>gg</p>

[Westmere]

<p>People are, by nature, not equal, so why pretend that they are and enforce equality?</p>

[woami]

<p>From the economic view, AA will only degrade minority quality since it doesn’t require them to work any harder and still get into a great college. People tend to look at things in a marginal cost and benefit standpoint. People are also influenced by incentives. If one score is good enough, why go the extra mile? The time spent getter better grades and scores is not worth it if you already have achieved your goals. Tell me if I completely butchered what I learned in economics. =P</p>

[Alexander1]

<p>Even if mummy told you so - life isn’t fair.</p>

[jaimeastorga2000]

<p>So what, are we supposed to just stand back and take it because life isn’t fair? We should be campaigning to stop this stupidity!</p>

<p>Well, I am not really taking it because I am hispanic, myself, but I still find this disgusting. I dislike stupid, incompetent thing like affirmative action on principle. I don’t want to be helped because of my race; I was born with a brain superior to the great majority of people and worked hard to obtain the knowledge my mind allowed me to understand. Pit me against any pool of white, asian, or black students without handicaps either for them or for me, and if I fail then at least I will know my betters are getting my place, not my inferiors from an underrepresented race.</p>

[sugar_sweet111]

<p>I completely agree about abolishing AA. It’s a nice sentiment, but in practice it’s just a breeding ground for all sorts of bad things. </p>

<p>I get the fact that colleges want diversity, but honestly it sort of stings when my future college gives away 5K scholarships for “contributing to diversity.” What, just because I’m not URM I don’t deserve that extra money—I worked hard throughout both middle school and high school, and now I’m just flat out denied any chance at those extra 5K. Besides, it doesn’t work the other way around, anyone can be eligible for the other several scholarships, it’s not like they’re only for white people. </p>

<p>Before this year, and this whole brouhaha with these scholarships, I’ve always viewed every race as in equal. We’re all working hard and doing our best, and in theory we should get the rewards that we earned, so (not to be cliche) it’s kind of not fair when the playing field isn’t equal. It just kind of leaves a sour taste…</p>

[southzeztpdot]

<p>have any of you guys ever been to a mostly black school? youd be lucky to crack 1100 in the SAT working your ass off in school. Colleges know black highschools or those in inner cities are inferior to suburban high schools. Why act as if they are equal?</p>

[phanatic]

<p>^Wow, the term “black high schools” sounds rather Wilson-esque.</p>