Dogs home alone and apartment living

Parent Cafe
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<p>I will try to make this short and sweet, not easy for me! My daughter has just moved to the metro DC area after living at home with up since she graduated college last May. Her puppy is now 11 months old and is staying with us while my daughter gets settled in her new apartment and job. She has only been gone 2 weeks and she ask about Oliver everyday; she wants us to bring him to her ASAP!</p>

<p>I have been dragging my feet on taking him as I don’t think it is the best thing for him. Oliver is use to our large home with a fenced backyard and our dog Abby as a built in playmate. While both dogs are crated when I am not home, I rarely am gone more that 3 hours, usually 1-2 hours a day. I either walk the dogs or they play in the yard a couple of times a day. Neither are big on staying in the yard alone, so they might go out for 10 minutes at a time. My husband takes them on long hikes on the weekends and a late evening walk a few times during the week. While Oliver is a typical puppy as far as activity, he also is happy just hanging out with a bone. He is less demanding for attention, unlike Abby who is 6 1/2.</p>

<p>My daughter has a 9 hour work day plus travel time. She lives alone in a high rise studio apartment, but there is plenty of green space for walks. At this time she does not have her car with her, but that could change in the future. Her lease is for 3 months as she has some friends that will be available to room with her in June. The new job has many social functions-dinners, happy hour, etc…; going home to feed and walk Oliver after work would mean she would miss out. Because she is in a new city, I would like for her to take advantage of all DC has to offer while she is young and can do so.</p>

<p>My concerns in no particular order:
1-Oliver currently potties often-I am not really sure how long he can really hold it. He has had a few accidents over the last several months, but each one was due to a really full bladder. The vet says there is not a problem, just an immature bladder. He has never gone in his crate even as a young puppy.</p>

<p>2-I hate the idea of him being crated for 10 hours a day. As there is not a daycare near her apartment and they charge a fortune in DC, the only option would be a dog walker. Besides the fact that my daughter makes little money, spending up to $30 a day for someone to take the dog out for 15 minutes seems criminal to me! There is always a chance she could find someone in her building to walk him mid day for cheaper, but she has not looked into that yet.</p>

<p>3-Her apartment is a studio so not a lot of room to play. Here at home he likes to run up and down the stairs or run and wrestle with Abby. I am afraid if he is crated all day that he will be wild once my daughter gets home and will have no where to release his energy. While there is a huge grassy area outside her building, there is no off leash parks that she can walk to. Since dogs can not go on the Metro, she is limited to places within walking distance.</p>

<p>4-I know my daughter, she is not an early riser. I worry that especially once it gets hot that she will not want to walk him in the AM before work. She will take him out to potty, but that might be all she does. I hope I am wrong about that, but while she was home with Oliver, he didn’t get walked until later in the morning, by me.</p>

<p>5-I would like Oliver to get a bit older before he joins her; at 11 months I think he is still too much of a puppy to be locked up all day. Not that I want him to be crated all day as an older dog, but at least he wouldn’t need as much playtime I don’t think.</p>

<p>I know plenty of dogs live in apartments with working parents; while we viewed apartments, there were dogs in every building. What I don’t know is what these people do with their dogs while at work. So what does one do with a dog while working full time and/or living in an apartment? Any words of wisdom would be helpful!</p>

<p>I am trying to convince my daughter to at least wait until she moves to a new place the end of June. At least then there would be a possibility that one of her roommates might be home sometimes during the day to help with Oliver. Since my daughter moved to DC to be able to live in a big city before moving back to our area for good, I think Oliver staying home with us would allow her to lead the single life. I realize people have to make arrangements for children and dogs, but this dog has a good home now. Does that sound like I want to keep her dog; I didn’t mean it to sound that way. I just want want is best for both Oliver and my daughter.</p>

<p>Well, this didn’t end up short like I had planned. I would love to hear from those that do live in apartments as well as those that work away from the home. What works for you?</p>

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<p>I hate the idea of him being crated for 10 hours a day.</p>

<p>That is just terrible! Poor doggie!</p>

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<p>Keep the dog with you. It doesn’t sound like your D has the space and lifestyle to properly take care of the dog.</p>

<p>I say this because I spent 3 years as a stay-at-home mom in an apartment building full of working single people–who left their dogs home alone all day/night. With all the barking, howling, smells, accidents (in basement, hallway) and owners not cleaning up in the yard–it was hell.
Think of the dog. Dogs need space, attention–and owners who clean up after them. Think of the neighbors. You don’t know how much noise your dog is making or who it is bothering when you’re not there. Just not a good idea to keep a dog in an apartment–unless it is a tiny lapdog with stay-at-home owner.</p>

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<p>Your daughter has the perfect situation for a cat, but not a dog. Perhaps your vet can offer an independent opinion that would resonate with her. (Or perhaps show her this thread.) This lifestyle change for a young dog verges on cruelty. Have you discussed this at all with her? Is there any chance she feels obligated to take Oliver and would be secretly relieved not to have the added responsibility? Could you convince that you your H, and Abby can’t bear to be separated from Oliver and beg her to let him stay? (Then buy her the cat.)</p>

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<p>You are totally correct. My theory on young adults getting a puppy or a kitten: you (the parents) better like the pup or the kitty and have a place for them: They’ll be living with you soon enough.</p>

<p>But a frank talk with your daughter is appropriate. No dog (or animal, although kittens seem to do better) should be left alone more than 5 hours at any time. They gotta go, they gotta play and dogs are bred to be with their people.</p>

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<p>This describes an example situation of how many dogs end up at animal shelters and rescues. She never should have gotten a dog at that time of her life. However, she’s lucky in that the dog currently has a good home and good caretakers. She needs to think of the dog’s life rather than her enjoyment of having the dog for the short time outside of work, commute, sleep, other activities, when she can pay attention to it in her home. </p>

<p>Puppies have accidents, chew everything they can find and can bark all day long, especially when left alone, and need exercise and attention. It’s hard to say how this puppy will react in the different environment but it’s possible it won’t be as content as where it is now and will behave differently.</p>

<p>The dog definitely shouldn’t go to her place now. She needs to get settled more and the dog needs to be older. Ten hours or more in a crate day in day out is no life for a dog and is very unfair to the dog.</p>

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<p>I would like to offer you my perspective, for what it’s worth. I am two years out of college, working my first job, which does require some overtime (on average, I am gone 9 hours a day with a really late night once every three months or so), and I have a dog. My situation is different from your daughter’s in that the dog would have no other place to go. I rescued him the day before he was going to be euthanized, and he happens to be a 70-pound pit bull, so placing him into a responsible home that can meet his needs (especially in this economy) would be almost impossible. Originally, he was supposed to be a foster, but I am pretty sure I am keeping him.</p>

<p>Let me start with crating. I know there are different schools of thought about it, but I really don’t believe in doing it, and I don’t see why it’s necessary in this situation. I grew up with dogs and living in apartments, and we never crated them. Not once did anything get chewed/destroyed/damaged. I really believe, especially since you have had this dog since he was a puppy you can train him to not chew on things he is not supposed to chew on, if that’s your concern. You can also dog-proof the apartment if you don’t entirely trust the dog. My current dog, Roscoe, who I got as a 3.5-year-old adult with pretty much no training from the previous owner has adjusted wonderfully to living in the apartment. I walk him twice a day - just to pee in the morning and a long walk with off-the-leash time at night. You should really provide a dog with about 2 hours outside, but I feel like you can do the long walk in the evening.</p>

<p>However, I am not saying that it means your daughter should keep the dog. Ultimately, I think it comes down to her personality. Is she an animal person? What was her reason for getting the dog in the first place? Sometimes, I joke around that with all my animals (I also have two guinea pigs) I feel like a single mom. Of course, I know it’s nothing like actually being a single mom, but it can feel overwhelming. You have to be really, REALLY dedicated. If you take on the responsibility for this life, it has to always come first. There are no two ways about it. </p>

<p>What will she do for food? Has she done research about diet, etc. A lot of commercially available foods are horrible. Some of the best ones, like Orijen and Innova Evo can run around $50-$75 a month for a large dog. What about vet bills? Personally, I have insurance, because I know I would not be able to afford it without it, but even with insurance you have to come up with the money up front.</p>

<p>What if she moves? I had to move because of my dog. It’s not impossible to find an apartment with a dog, but you may have to sacrifice some other features you may want (I had to move further away from work). Trips? She may have to take the dog with her. I disagree with the poster who said you shouldn’t keep dogs in apartments, by the way. A lot of large dogs are very calm and don’t bother anyone. But that’s another discussion.</p>

<p>The one thing I would say is please don’t tell her that her roommates might help out. More than likely they won’t, or they won’t be very responsible about it. A lot of people that age rely on their roommates to help with pets, and in most cases it ends up being s disaster for the pet. She really can’t rely on anyone but herself.</p>

<p>All that being said, if she truly loves animals and wants them to be a part of her life, none of it would matter. Personally, I would much rather have a dog than go to office events. I don’t know how she feels. If the dog will really be her focus, someone she always puts first, give him to her. Don’t worry what she will miss out on. I think caring for someone else, be it a person or an animal is always better and more fulfilling than doing things for yourself.</p>

<p>I guess what I am trying to say is do what’s best for the dog. You know your daughter best. Unless she is 100% dedicated, don’t do it. For example, if the dog barks and she has to find a new place to live, move from a place she like, sublet her apartment, etc., would she do it, or would she give the dog to you? If she will give the dog to you, she probably doesn’t need to have him in the first place.</p>

<p>Sorry for such a long response. I just feel very strongly about animals.</p>

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<p>He is not going to be crated 10 hours a day. He will be crated 16-18 hours a day depending on how much your D will sleep. Sorry for my bluntness, that is cruelty to animals. Dogs are den animals, but Mother Nature did not design them to be confined in their den for so long. If your D cannot afford a doggie daycare, she should not have a dog in her apartment.</p>

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<p>Caesar Milan has often had to deal with behavioral issues in dogs who are suddenly left alone in a small space for many hours on end. They become fearful, and display heartbreaking separation anxiety that manifests itself as endless barking when the owner is away, and/or serious destructiveness. It doesn’t at all sound fair to Oliver for her to take him away from his other canine companion, and from the humans who are responsive this his every need (you all are basically is “pack”, and his security in the world). And as an immature dog, he is not as well equipped as an adult dog to deal with all the many changes he would face once he’s living with your D. It doesn’t sound like she’s thought this through very well, and it seems to me that every one of the concerns you outlined in the OP is well founded. Ask her if she can imagine trying to hold her urine for 9-10hrs at a stretch? :eek:</p>

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<p>

You had a lot of good points in your post but regarding the above - there’s a big difference between an 11 month old and a 3.5 y/o dog when it comes to the ‘accidents’, chewing, etc. Your dog at 3.5 was past that but this 11 month old isn’t. That’s a big difference in dog maturity.</p>

<p>I’m glad you rescued your dog (another rescue dog owner here).</p>

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<p>Keep Oliver with you. Many years ago I faced the same situation when I got divorced and moved with my dog from a house with a yard to a city condo. Pets were allowed there, but within a week it was clear it wasn’t going to work for my dog. She went to live with my parents (who, fortunately, were willing). She was still “my” dog, and I loved her dearly. But I visited and was responsible for her food and medical care. Years later, I got a dog only because I work from home. Have your D read Cesar Milan’s website or books (see the post above). A dog that’s cooped up for long periods isn’t getting essential affection and exercise.</p>

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<p>Maybe i have missed something, but what kind of a dog is Oliver? If we are talking a Golden or a Lab or something similar … this is not going to work. If we are talking a smaller dog, it might be an option. But it’s my opinion that dogs are wonderful, but they limit your lifestyle and your choices. I wouldn’t encourage a young person to get a dog, especially living in the city, but I certainly understand why she wants her dog.</p>

<p>I have a new puppy … she’s crate trained at night, but I have a pop up playpen that she can hang out in if I am at work or out for a bit. The pop ups are 4 feet plus in diameter – there are two sizes … and have a canvas base and a zip on top. I am not using the top – I will if I take her out to a dog show or something for shade and extra security.</p>

<p>She won’t soil in the pen … she is very good about it. It’s much more room than a crate. I’ve been using this since she was 12 weeks old. Belle is a small Sheltie – right now she is about 14 lbs. </p>

<p>For quite a while, every day was “take your puppy to work day”, and I had a metal x-pen, and then a smaller pop up and I let her hang out in the shop. Since I own a pet shop … my lucky pup gets the best of everything (and all the samples) and can go to work too!</p>

<p>Part of my point is that there are options beyond crates for confinement … and they don’t have to be the heavy metal things.</p>

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<p>I never had a dog as a child and ended up with a dog because of my husband and children. I don’t particularly like dogs (flame away)–I do like my dog though. Anyway, what I’m trying to say is that I’m not a dog person–and even I wouldn’t think of leaving a dog alone for hours and hours. The only way that it might work is doggie day-care or a dog-walker–if there were someone who could come and walk the dog or a place your D could take the dog, it might work for the dog. However, either option is somewhat expensive and I’m assuming that since your D is starting her first job after college, she probably couldn’t afford to do this. I vote for keeping the dog at home with you.</p>

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<p>I will try to answer all questions/concerns. Oliver is a small retriever mix; he weights 30 lbs., and should be close to full grown. Oliver’s crates is quite large as it was Abby’s and is meant for a much larger dog; when Oliver sleeps in it, he only fills about 1/6 of the crate. He is not crated when someone is home, only when left alone. While he has never been much a a chewer on items other than his toys, I would not trust him alone. Just this morning both dogs found a box of writing pens my husband moved to a stack on the floor last night. Luckily Oliver tattled on Abby and I was able to remove the pen from her mouth before she ate the entire thing!</p>

<p>While my daughter was working her in our home city, she lived at home knowing she would get a place of her own (or with a roommate) in the spring. We are in a driving city and there are 3 doggie daycare facilities between our home and her office; 2 are within a mile of her work. When she moved it was always the plan to send him to day care at least half day and either one of us would pick him up at lunch time and take him home. If she knew she would have a long day, he would stay full day or come to my house. Oliver would never have to be home for great lengths of time. I take him to daycare one day a week for 3-4 hours with Abby; they both love to go and play with their friends. If I am going to have a really busy week (like when a parent is in the hospital, or the weather is crappy,) they might go a second day. A half day of daycare wears they out and they both sleep the remainder of the day. Neither my daughter or I ever imagined that the metro DC area would be lacking in the doggie daycare department. Because my daughter only had 3 weeks to find a place to live, working here until the day before she moved, we knew Oliver would stay here short term. It wasn’t until we started researching daycares that we found out there was no easy way to get him there and pick him up.</p>

<p>I do believe my daughter would not have taken this job if she realized before accepting it that Oliver would be a problem. Again, here, even if we didn’t live nearby, she would have plenty of options for him between daycare and off leash dog parks for after work and weekends. In DC, without a car, finding an outlet for Oliver’s energy is not as easy as we expected. She could take her car back, but I am not sure that is going to help her during the week as the daycare facilities are few and far between.</p>

<p>I do not worry about my daughter caring for the dog. We are the anal family that picks up every poop on walks, including those that don’t belong to our dog. We have a dedicated “poop” trash can on the edge of out property that goes out on trash day. We should own stock in Nature’s Miracle as we used in a lot during housebreaking; I still keep 2 bottles around for that occasional accident. I know my daughter would quickly clean up if Oliver happen to have an accident in the common area of her apartment.</p>

<p>If we could find a daycare that was accessible, my daughter has plenty of savings she is willing to use to pay for it. I am not worried that she can not afford to take care of Oliver. My hope is that while in DC she will have more time to fine a place that would work better for Oliver. The girl she plans to live with is from her high school and she loves Oliver and wants to have him live with them. She misses her family dogs and is looking forward to having Oliver around. That said, my daughter does not plan to dump dog care on this girl, but if she is home, she doesn’t mind feeding or walking him. This has been discussed in advance and the girls are happy with the arrangement. This girl has it good, she gets a dog without the monetary concerns!!</p>

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<p>ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad, it’s really great that you rescued a dog :slight_smile: I definitely understand what you are saying, and I think it’s a great point, but I do think she could try to dog-proof the studio to make it safe for the puppy. I know it requires a lot of effort, but I think it can be done. Admittedly, I have never done it for a dog, but I did used to own a fancy rat that had a cage where it pooped and peed but was allowed to go outside. Rats can get EVERYWHERE, and they chew NON-STOP, but even with that I was able to proof the room. I think the OP’s daughter should at least give it a try if it comes down to being a choice between that and the dog being crated for so long. When my parents got our dog as a two-months old puppy, they never crated him. They did puppy proof a space for him, and we never had any problems, apart from a few accidents. She can also use some sort of a baby or dog gate to separate part of her room for this puppy.</p>

<p>As a side note, I am also quite puzzled why people say small dogs are better suited for apartments. I wonder if it’s because when people think of a large dog, they think of a lab, which is very high energy. I have grown up with large dogs and have a large dog now, and I think they are a lot calmer than a lot of the smaller dogs. I do understand that larger dog may need more exercise, so you definitely have to find a place where they can be let off the leash and run, but I don’t think that means they can’t live in an apartment.</p>

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<p>Your adult daughter asked you to care for her dog until she was settled. She is settled. She wants her dog. You don’t want to give her her dog. Ya gotta give her her dog.</p>

<p>This doesn’t bode well for your future grandchildren coming to spend time with you :)</p>

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<p>…and with any luck, she will smarten up and give him back :)</p>

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<p>You can puppy proof all you want, but when a dog wants to chew, he isn’t particular what it is he is chewing! That means doors, walls, cabinets, bedding, etc… are all fair game. While Oliver is a big chewer, that doesn’t stop him from grabbing my blanket that hangs over the end of the bed when he wants me to get up in the morning, or throwing the pillows off the sofa because they are in the spot he wants to sleep; and while he pushes them to the floor he feels this need to wrestle with the pillow on the way down!!</p>

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<p>Sax- I just got the same piece of advice elsewhere! I guess my helicoptering kicked in! I will try to see if she will at least wait until after the next move in 10 weeks; it isn’t that long and Oliver will have a bit more time to mature and can work on leaving him a little longer on some days to see how he does.</p>

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<p>I was being blunt to get the point across :)</p>

<p>I wouldn’t want to give him back either for all the reasons you stated. Ugh…it’s so hard but I wanted you to “hear” that post as hard as it was to write it. Yup…do your best to help her see his needs and then do as she asks. HAHAHAH…You have fallen head over heels for Oliver! Just reread post 18. It exudes “puppy love”!!!</p>

<p>You can’t replace your D with her puppy…get your own…hahaha</p>