<p>I would encourage your daughter to talk to the administration herself. This was much the same way at my school. The principal had what he called a ‘principal’s council’ of a whole bunch of different students, and the council, which represented a fairly good representation of the school, was asked by administration to complete a homework log for a week, documenting how long was spent on assignments, and used that information to start making little changes.</p>
<p>I think assigning Angelas Ashes is child abuse.
I had to stop reading it myself, it made me so depressed.</p>
<p>Ah, the homework logs requested by the principal. Yes indeed, they work really well because the embarrassed/threatened teacher suddenly gets reasonable with the quantity of homework for two weeks, which makes those who had complained look like liars. Been there, done that. And then there are always the parents who lie on the log, thinking it will make their child seem brilliant by comparison because he and he alone among his peers can do it all so well and so easily. Others lie because they are afraid the teacher will think their kid is stupid if s/he learns how long the work really took the kid.</p>
<p>No, I will not complain because their response will be to offer to move her to remedial or sub-college prep level classes. Been there, done that before too with older D and for various other issues. Always backfires, and tends to hurt the kids.</p>
<p>Angela’s Ashes is a profound book, but 13-year-olds can hardly be expected to understand it. I am conservative and religious, but that book presents excellent arguments for legal abortion and divorce. A similar book that is more developmentally appropriate for middle schoolers would be A Tree Grows in Brooklyn.</p>
<p>TheGFG, I believe you live in New Jersey? There are several pressure-cooker suburban districts there where the kids are worked beyond belief. I know a couple of parents who have put their children in parochial school even after stretching themselves financially to buy a house in a “good” district, just because the workload was insane. No advice except that I feel for you and your D.</p>
<p>I always made sure that mine is NOT doing her homework for unreasonalbe hours.<br>
First, no homework after 10 pm. Second, request to put her books down and stop after certain amount of hours. It is not healthy. Long hours will NOT help them to learn to organize their time and definitley will NOT help them at college, they will not have those long hours there, they have to learn how to do homework more efficiently in HS, otherwise it will backfire at college. BTW, D. has never had any grade below A kindergarten thru graduating from college. She not a genius by any means. Hard working person who was forced from the age of 5 to learn time managment skills because of excessive amount of ECs (by her own choice).
Parents who do kids’ homework deprive them of invaluable skill, the skill that will serve others very well for the rest of their lives.</p>
<p>GFG, is your D involved in heavy outside EC activities? What time is she actually sitting down to start the homework? </p>
<p>You know the culture of the school best, so your decision not to complain is most likely the right one. I would help her in every other way that I could - take all other responsibilities off her shoulders. If she has household chores such as her laundry, cleaning her room or walking the dog, suspend them for now. Let her catch her breath.</p>
<p>I agree about home chores. Mine never had any, not even now, I am glad she brings her laundry, I am proud to make it possible for her to have some free time, spend time with friends, it is very important. However, pulling them out of ECs is wrong, these are making life balanced. Unbalanced life can create more problems than initial intend to solve them. D. continue being very heavy into ECs at college. That allowed her to meet variety of people and enjoy different experiences. Have to grow as a person, not just academically.</p>
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<p>I understand this sentiment- one that I employed while my kids were in middle school, but it isn’t really the answer either. And I bet that most of these chores are already “let go” for this purpose. I’m not convinced that feeding or walking the dog is less important than some busy work, and it may be better to get an incomplete on a given assignment.
We already excuse kids from a lot of helping out in the family because of their outside busy schedules, and there are consequences for that, too.</p>
<pre><code>I would talk to other parents. I know that you won’t get everyone, as people are not inclined to be honest if it makes their kids seem less than perfect, but as a group this subject could be taken up both with the administration and with parent groups like the PTA. You may not get results right away, but it sounds like a systemic problem, and you may get more support than you expect.
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<p>I should add that we actually did this in elementary school- got several parents to bring it up at a PTA meeting the principal attended. Without naming teachers names, just subjects, we were able to make a difference.</p>
<p>No consequences of not doing home chores. I still do not do much, laundry is one of my favorite activities, so I do not count this one. Forget the rest, we hire and cooking has been dimishished to almost nothing. I would not force anybody doing what I do not do myself. I keep waying my kids to make sure to be able to hire help when she is on her own. Surprisingly, she actually appreciate when she has time to clean her place (despite of never doing it at home). Yes, when they get used to living in clean place, they strive to have a clean place even when tehy do not have time for it, they look forward doing it as a nice break.</p>
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<p>IMO, despite what you seem tho think, I consider this inappropriate Not immoral, but inappropriate nonetheless. And just as inappropriate as a parent’s policy of doing their kid’s homework. </p>
<p>This is not a phenomena I’ve heard of, but I’m going to (and correct me if I’m out of line here) associate it with being purely a thing of the private/charter East Coast type of crowd. We in the Midwest are, I guess, more sane and normal. </p>
<p>If not everything can be done, simply tell her to figure out what homework get’s her the most per unit time of work required and to do that, just leaving what can’t be done unfinished. </p>
<p>Occasionally I would just pay someone like $10 or $20 or something to do the “make it look pretty” kind of nonsense in high school. High school students are pretty willing to do what seems like 3 hours of work for $10 for whatever reason. The type of stuff that provided me no educational value and was a time-sink. While maybe inappropriate still, it’s better than them just passing it off to the parent. Presumably you’re educated and work a white collar job, then your time is worth more than your kid’s time. This didn’t happen too often even though. I think I remember having a few in like History/Social Studies classes (nonsense like “sew a patch for a quilt that represents this particular period of American History” or “color in this map of some region of the world”) but for the most part that was it. And at least if she’s outsourcing her work like that, she’s learning a different skill.</p>
<p>One time in middle-school my son “outsourced” his project folder cover to his older sister, who is quite artistic. My son can’t draw to save his life. It was very obviously not his work, and he mentioned it to his teacher when he turned it in. His grade came back, " A. But your sister gets an A+" Sometimes this kind of thing is taken way too seriously, and I’m glad that the teacher recognized what was important.
As to the letting the chores go thing, it’s a matter of teaching what’s important in life, and I’m sure this varies depending on one’s values. I happen to think keeping the home-life stable and doing your part at home is as important as school, and later, work. When my kids are married with families, I don’t want them to think that what they are doing at work, or in their own personal time, should necessarily take precedence over their family life and home obligations. Obviously, sometimes it does. But as a matter of course, no. Learning to balance is the key, and it’s not easy. But to excuse home chores because the kid is too busy with school work and activities? I don’t think it sends the right message. jmo</p>
<p>If you are mostly out of house and your kid is mostly out of house between like 7am and 10 pm, then there is no much to do in a house. You stop there for quick finishing homework (if you go only to one EC, sometime, there was no chance to stop at home, so homework had to be done at school, say if a kid has music private and sport practice right after). But it depends on a family, I agree. I never liked doing any chores myself…boring waste of time for me. I know plenty of people who love cooking as one example. I imagine that these people will spend considerable time involving their kids in cooking and they eventually will enjoy it. My D. has a friend like this, she actually got 3rd place prize for her pie at some fair (while also in Med. School). I am sorry for my D., who have to get her know-how-to-cook on internet. But it is not a rocket science, let’s face it, anybody can learn how to clean, cook…etc. These skiils are not at the level of time management skills, many will never learn those, nobody gave them a chance, they did not bother doing it themselves…
In terms of the right message, we had only one - if you work hard, you will get where you want to be, no matter how high is a goal.</p>
<p>^^^ Yes, it really does depend on the family and the values they hope to impart. My kids were hardwired to be hard workers, but needed (and still need) to be reminded to stop and smell the roses. And to appreciate where one is, here and now. It’s not all about the future, as the present is where one lives.
No criticism of you, Miami. Just wanted to mention it because as parents, we don’t always think about the messages we send when we prioritize some things over others. We all do it though, and it’s what makes each family unique.</p>
<p>The amount of homework given is directionally proportional to the … lacking qualities of the teachers. The hope is that the students will be forced to learn the material that was NOT covered well in class, for a number of reasons. </p>
<p>Do not fool yourself in believing this is new. You sent your toddlers to school after preparing them very well. You kept offering support through elementary and middle school, and kept plugging the massive holes left by a deficient education system. The only difference is that by high school, most parents are unable or unwilling to “attack” the amount of work, as it has gotten harder and more time consuming. </p>
<p>The facts that the typical US student is above the world averages in elementary school, about average in middle school, and … way behind in high school can be traced directly to the growing lack of support by the PARENTS by the last part of K12. </p>
<p>So, parents, go ahead and blame yourself if your kids do not as well as expected. Fwiw, if you do not blame yourself, have no worries … the system is already placing all the blame on your shoulders, as the excuse for the poor performance in the US is always linked to the parental deficiencies. You see, our schools do well to teach the “easy to teach” kids – a term that is a proxy for the kids who get a lot of parental support and assistance. </p>
<p>Is a LOT of homework necessary? Not at all, and the results would be much better if students had to do this homework AT school, under the supervision and guidance of competent teachers, and with the amazing help of collaborative work (their peers.) Countries that do well such as Finland do NOT rely on massive homework. The school officials of that country were amazed to learn how obsessed the US is with homework. </p>
<p>Isn’t our education system wonderful? Helicopter parents shoring up a deficient education. Little wonder why the transition to college is so hard for some.</p>
<p>Yes. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Either you are a helicopter parent and the teachers complain about this or you are unsupportive and your kids can’t get their work done because of that. </p>
<p>To be fair, schools are in a bad position and teachers are too busy being social workers and food police and clothing cops and managers of social justice issues to teach the subject matter at hand.</p>
<p>It’s amazing—some kids can’t even get their parents to help them with their hw.</p>
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<p>Not every school in the country needs around the clock social workers and food cops. Today, some love to rely on such excuses to explain why the education is in its abysmal state. For sure, there are districts that look like they Hollywood picture them. There are, indeed, horrible places in the US, but those are also the one with 80 percent dropout rates a la Detroit!</p>
<p>But are all schools that horrible? And, if they were, what is that is done about it? All in all, it always goes to the conclusion that outsiders have learned to accept the stack of excuses as facts, as long as it does not impact the self-esteem too much. The US wants to believe it does everything better, and does not like to face its deficiencies and mediocrity. The districts I know are not controlled by gang members, the violence in schools is almost non-existant, the budgets are adequate … yet, the schools are perennial underperformers, a extensive panoply of principals and supers have ended up on the FBI rolls, teachers are hired from horrible “teaching” colleges, and there is no improvement. </p>
<p>And mediocrity is the best qualifier for our public system of education, especially when using the expenses per capita as a yardstick.</p>
<p>I really think the current social missions we’ve put in the school system are a waste of every resource. Time, money, energy. </p>
<p>But this is just my opinion</p>
<p>^</p>
<p>I agree with that statement. This might not have been clear from my earlier response.</p>
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<p>How so? Specifically, what makes you feel this way?</p>