<p>There is a truly excellent discussion going on in the Tales of a Transfer thread. I think it merits its own thread, as it is really thought-provoking and enlightening in terms of college search and selection.</p>
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<p>The process is over for my S (unless he too transfers), but I find this very interesting and it raises a few questions:</p>
<p>[ul][<em>]What ARE these social, intellectual and academic cultures?[</em>]How DOES one ferret out the actual dominant culture vs. the stereotype that may be bandied about?[<em>]IS this an issue only with LACs and maybe small universities? [</em>]If so, what is the tipping point where there are multiple cultures at a school where everyone will find his or her own?[<em>]Is that tipping point purely one of student body size, or are there other elements which determine whether there is one dominant or several co-existing cultures?[</em>]Are there reasons to choose a school even knowing you will be outside of the dominant culture?[*]Is transferring the only solution if one finds oneself a fish out of water, or are there other coping mechanisms?(think student who has financial or other reasons for not changing, or who simply wants to try alternatives before a transfer)[/ul]</p>
<p>This is a very important aspect of college choice and am trying hard to help my D find a good “culture” fit. I think it can be hard to determine before you are actually there–but you should talk to a lot of people who have been there recently as well as when you visit and what they all keep coming back to is the '“dominant culture”. Some types seem to be: leftish intellectual, artsy-dance, theatre oriented, preppy-athletic, pre- professional ambitious, party school often with strong Greek scene, city as campus, demanding academics with many requirements vs. free-wheeling define your own concentrations, politically active, supportive-hand-holding vs. sink or swim on your own, strong community-close-knit vs. everyone does their own thing or finds a clique, tolerant diverse vs. dominant single religion or conservative outlook–these may overlap somewhat, of course.</p>
<p>If you are an individualist with a strong sense of what you want from college and one school has an outstanding program in your field ( and perhaps offers you good financial aid) you might still want to go to a school where you don’t fit the dominant scene. Most bigger universities will provide a number of different scenes and cultures on one campus. </p>
<p>Check out how most people spend their free time. Are these activities that you would enjoy? You don’t have to fit in with the majority but there should be a sizable minority with whom you could feel at home and people who share your degree of seriousness about studies (or your dedication to having a good time no matter what). Are at least some people dressed in a way you find comfortable? Will your strengths be appreciated here–social as well as academic? Is there room to grow–a chance to encounter some types not yet familiar to you without a permanent alienating sense of culture shock that makes you want to get away quick? Does this community make you feel like you could and would contribute to its quality and also reap some rewards?</p>
<p>Coping mechanisms with a “wrong fit” are deep commitment to academics or getting in with a strong interest group–cultural, religious, political, community service, sports–that will satisfy your need for companionship–sometimes just a few good friends are enough. Or do a Junior Year Abroad and then work hard on graduating Senior Year.</p>
<p>Also, how much do you need a peer group of people like you? Some students will be fine in the 5% minority but others will want more people “like me.” For example, some conservatives would avoid a liberal school but others will relish the challenge of testing their ideas against different views.</p>
<p>One important thing: <strong>judge the culture for yourself.</strong> Do not accept others’ assessments of the culture for you. My D was advised against some schools that actually wound up appealing to her very much and having schools recommended that were wrong for her. Her well-meaning counselor had my D pegged as a certain “type.” In fact, though my D is pretty close to the type, her friends are quite diverse. </p>
<p>The school she ultimately chose felt very comfortable to her even though her “type” was not the majority type in the school, because the <em>spread</em> of types did mirror her current peer group pretty well. </p>
<p>The culture of a school is one level of analysis-- the <em>tolerance for other culture</em> is another. You can go to a drinking/party school with tolerance for non-drinkers and lots of other social options-- or you can go to a drinking school with nothing else to do and little tolerance. We are talking about 17 year old kids who will grow and evolve over time. Some thought should also be given to the possibilities for growth and change within the school’s culture. In 4 years, you may just want to try other things.</p>
<p>This issue of dominant culture and the role she would play in the dominant culture was one of the key things in my D’s decision. The question we asked her was, "When you wake up in the morning, do you want to be yourself (let’s call that character X) amongst a lot of this kind of kid (let’s call that character Y), or do you want to be character X amongst mostly this others kind of kid (character A). Even though she was closer in nature to Y she preferred to spend her days as an X amongst A’s.</p>
<p>This would be a bigger issue at a small school, as most mid- to large schools would have more people, more programs, more dorms, more everything. . .and more opportunity for significant sub-cultures to thrive. </p>
<p>As for how to sort this out. . .the Fiske and Princeton Review guides do a pretty good job of laying out the basics, and after quite a few college visits and conversations with current students and faculty members, as well as with recent graduates, their guide information proved to be pretty reliable proved at the schools I investigated. Regardless, I would seek out as many information sources as you can.</p>
<p>I guess it depends if the dominant culture is accepting of other cultures or not. My son definitely does not fit the stereotypical student profile of his small LAC. He still finds it welcoming, with plenty to do. As I was reading the last issue of their student newspaper, it was interesting that two letters complained about the latest campus offerings (which have all been well attended and well supported) as not being “conservative” enough. So perhaps the reality is that the atmosphere has shifted, and the people who came for the stereotype are now disappointed.</p>
<p>We got the book a few weeks ago. It is a bit rightwardly slanted but it does discuss the ‘atmosphere’ on campus and cites specific examples of:</p>
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<li>courses they do not think highly of</li>
<li>professors that are worth taking</li>
<li>political atmosphere on campus, not just left/right but whether students feel compfortable enough to speak, etc.</li>
<li>Greek life</li>
<li>Athletics</li>
</ul>
<p>There are ‘only’ 125 college listed in the guide and each school has about 8 pages written about them. I have found the guide to be quite useful so far because I will use the information it provides and apply my nuetral filter to it.</p>
<p>I thought about this a lot, and still have some angst about this subject. I hope that some students post their views about their individual schools.</p>
<p>One thing that occurred to me after much thought - let your child go where “feels” best after an overnight visit because</p>
<p>1) All these cultures (real as I think they are) are filtered through your child’s experience and perspective</p>
<p>2) S/he is picking a school based on what type of culture they think they will fit NOW (and now may be summer of junior year), but their experience of the school will be at age 20. Now I hope my DD doesn’t become a beer swilling hard partier who only goes to class for tests, but I know she won’t be the same person at 20 she is now. So, be aware, but don’t stress too much if they pick a school that doesn’t quite seem to fit.</p>
<p>Two questions that helped my daughter decide what she was looking for in a college culture: What person or group do you admire most at your high school? Why? What types of things do they do for fun, how do they act in the classroom, what do they talk about, how do they dress? AND What person or roup do you admire least at your school? Why? What types of things do they do for fun, how do they act in the classroom, what do they talk about, how do they dress? </p>
<p>Interestingly, this has proven to be a reliable filter when we’re visiting colleges - my Daughter wants to be around more of the type of people she admires, and around fewer of the types she dislikes. It is pretty easy to spot which is more common at any particular school just through talking with people, observing students, and attending a classes.</p>
<p>College is a time for broadening of the mind, experiencing new things, and exposure to new ideas. “Culture” can be important – but it can be very limiting if the student is too tied to finding like-minded people. So that <em>tolerance</em> notion is very important – how tolerant is the supposed dominant “culture” of diverse opinions and interests… and how tolerant is your child (and can your child become) of peope with different interest, backgrounds and styles. </p>
<p>I do realize that it is valuable to be very aware of the culture issue before going to a school … but at the same time sometimes it is valuable to change one’s own perspective - and college certainly is the place to begin that journey. Of course we parents don’t want our kids to experience that change by taking up a lifestyle of heavy drinking. But change can also be positive. </p>
<p>I personally enjoyed my large university experience in part because it was a place of many “cultures.” Different dorms had their own cultures – and each academic department even had its own culture. I didn’t major in what I thought I was most interested in – I ended up in the department that seemed to have the culture that was the best fit. </p>
<p>But I have a feeling that even a small LAC probably has a variety of subcultures – its just that some kids may be better than others at seeking them… or even creating them. I mean - lets take the example of a handful of conservative kids on a very liberal campus. One kid might feel very frustrated and out-of-place; another might find that she enjoyed having the liberals as friends and discussing and debating issues; a third might find his own attitudes changing and convert to liberalism; and yet a fourth might found a Young Republicans club on campus and manage to attract a core group of like -minded friends. Obviously this example could extend to any type of “cultural” quality. </p>
<p>I just think that while the culture thing is certainly something that is valuable to be aware of – it it is only one factor, and not necessarily a deciding factor, in choosing a college.</p>
<p>It’s really isn’t that easy to predict a match between a student and a college. Fortunately most kids are just thrilled to be leaving highschool and home, and adapt well to their college even if it was not their first choice and they had some qualms about the school. Also it can really be the luck of the draw. A school that could be a mismatch can become home if the student meets the right people, a good roommate and nice slate of classes. I have known kids who hated their college even after they had gone through the whole checklist of things to do when picking a school, and everyone thought the match owas great. And there are kids who were “sent” to a college who ended up loving it there. Often it is a mixed bag of feelings, as life tends to be. Sometimes you cannot get the reason out of the kid as to why they are so down on a school–they just don’t want to say.</p>
Eagle79, this book does attempt to portray individual school cultures, and it’s wise of you to apply your own “neutral filter” (nice phrase!) since the author is upfront about his political agenda. However, the “Right College” profile of the only school I know rather well (W & M) is full of inaccuracies, large and small. Minor example: there is no such place as “Delly’s” in Williamsburg, which I recall being named as the campus hangout. There are, however, several delis of varying atmospheres which are restaurants by day, bars/hangouts at night. (A small gaffe, but one that made me question how carefully the book was researched.)</p>
<p>Another mistake: W & M students are not necessarily happy to provide directions to lost tourists, despite the book’s suggestion that they are. Some may be, but I would particularly avoid young men in Greek letter t-shirts, who seem to find it amusing to send middle-aged folks in the opposite direction of their destination.</p>
<p>No, it can be an issue at a big school if the student is not comfortable being part of a small minority.</p>
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<p>It’s not just about student body size – the diversity (in a lot of different senses) of the student body matters, and so does school location. I think that schools in the middle of nowhere are especially likely to have one dominant culture as compared to urban schools. That kind of location also makes it harder to get a breather from the dominant culture if you don’t like it.</p>
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<p>Sure. If you’re comfortable with that, then you don’t have to cross every school off your list that is otherwise a match academically.</p>
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<p>Depends on how small the school is and just how pervasive that culture is. At a 1200-student school, switching dorms and changing majors is not going to work any miracles. At a bigger and more diverse school, making the same changes may restart your life to almost as great an extent as transferring.</p>
<p>momsdream if I had any memory at all I could tell you who said this a while back, but fit doesn’t and shouldn’t only mean fit who you are today , but who you see yourself being in 3-4 years.</p>
<p>Like everything else, it’s a balance. Ideally, college should encourage you to stretch in comfort, with good company around you. That’s where the fit comes in.</p>
<p>Everyone, the right college could be any place, within reason. My hispanic son is going off this summer to work with European kids and play music with many souls and this fall he will be in Wisconsin. He will make his way in the world. He will stretch in the next few years and be very dedicated to his school. That is how he is made. I can guarantee that. Lucky them!</p>
<p>I think it’s smart to consider the culture of a school. I went to a LAC (sight unseen!) because I had no clue where to go to college, and because it was sort of a family tradition to go there. It was very preppy and Greek-oriented. I was so lonely. I remember overhearing some girls on my freshman hall gossiping about me, how I didn’t have the right clothes to fit in to their sorority … yuck.</p>
<p>Then I participated in a junior year abroad program and met students from other colleges – Oberlin, Harvard, Grinnell, various state universities, etc. I loved the diversity of the students, the excitment of living and studying in another country … and my study abroad pals were a lot like me – adventurous, intellectual, curious. I felt validated, which was important for me at the time.</p>
<p>I think the culture of a school matters a lot. As it is, senior year I did make the best of my college, and it worked out OK, but I wished I had known (way back then in the late seventies!) that different schools have different cultures.</p>