don't black kids deserve a chance to think?

Parent Cafe
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<p>i first posted on CC a few days ago in the cafe , seeking out info on whether math is an overrated subject and how that might affect my son, going into HS. i want to thank the community for the responses, which have given me much to think on. because S will be starting HS i am full of worries about his schooling, especially the curriculum. i saw this op-ed piece in the WashPost this Saturday (4/7) that reinforced much of what I have worried about in terms of how prepared he will be for college. ( I excerpt in part) S’s school is new. It is primarily black and latino. It is supposed to be both academically challenging and supportive, and i will wait to see if the word-of-mouth about the place bears this out. But take a gander: </p>

<p>"Schools often use test-prep programs to try to raise test scores. The problem with these programs is that they teach the skills covered on tests, and only these skills. Poor and minority students spend hours repeating “B buh ball” and two plus two equals four. Every hour spent drilling basic skills is an hour not spent developing the higher-level thinking skills that are emphasized in wealthier school districts.</p>

<p>I have worked in both types of schools. Currently, I teach in an almost exclusively minority, high-poverty elementary school. Administrators require teachers to strictly adhere to a months-long test-prep program. My students recoil at the sight of their test-prep books. Last year, some of my students cried, wracked with anxiety over the tests.</p>

<p>My students are 7 and 8 years old.</p>

<p>I did my student teaching in an almost exclusively white and wealthy school. There, the students studied the role of quilts on the Underground Railroad, brainstormed plans to save wolves from extinction and performed dances based on retellings of Cinderella. The children learned to think and they loved it.</p>

<p>At the end of the year, test results will come out for these two schools. Educators and politicians will trumpet any reduction of the so-called achievement gap. This misses the point. Students will leave these two schools and schools like them with a widely varying set of skills. As the achievement gap is being reduced, another gap is being created. Students in largely wealthy and white schools are learning to ask larger questions; students in poor and minority schools are only being taught to answer smaller ones."</p>

<p>Its my big fear. While my kid is getting drill and kill, the white kids get Shakespeare and Latin (just examples). The author is talking about elementary school, obviously, but I can’t help worrying that this is a dynamic for black kids that holds from K to 12: black kids get the foundation and white kids get the whole house. S narrowly averted this fate in in middle school because of a few gifted teachers that pushed him a bit, but i do not know yet that i can count on that in HS. </p>

<p>I’d be interested to hear from any parents who have seen this in action, and especially any black or latino parents. Have you experienced it? How have you handled it? Its a toxic brew of NCLB, the bigotry of low expectations and just plain dumbing down, as I see it. Of course, if this turns out to be the case at the new HS I will of course try and compensate any way I can, up to and including switching schools (premature right now, but I’m already planning just in case.) reading this on top of the whole Imus thing really makes you see how far we have come–and how little. I think this writer gets it, though.</p>

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<p>BigAppleDaddy:
Your post here makes me feel really sad – because what you’ve outlined here is so true. It’s such a complicated problem, but your analogy of the foundation versus the whole house is right on. (And there are, sadly, even cracks in the foundation.) </p>

<p>Do you live in an area that is served by a Science & Technology Entry Program (STEP)? Google it and also see if any of the colleges near you have it. It is for African American, Hispanic or American Indian high school kids, funded by the NYS Dept of Education and housed in colleges. Some of the programs are better than others, but they generally offer enrichment activities and tutoring.</p>

<p>Our Jesuit HS here offers 5 full scholarship for African American low-income boys. They even fund clothes, books, field trips, etc. I wish they could offer more of those scholarships - lots more - but of course being a Catholic high school it’s generally pretty broke. I think those kids are so lucky to have dodged our crummy urban high schools.</p>

<p>Even our magnet schools here are disappointing, in some cases performing even worse than the schools they’ve replaced. </p>

<p>Maybe Bill Gates is right. Maybe our high schools just need to be completely torn down and reconfigured.</p>

<p>(Guard your kids against the constantly patrolling military recruiters too. They swarm to the urban high schools…working the cafeteria daily.)</p>

<p>(And the Imus thing :frowning: I look at those sweet, hard working young women on that team and I think, I can’t believe that in 2007 this is what they hear. It’s sickening.)</p>

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<p>You pose some good but complex questions, the answers to which may very well lie less in racism than in specific educational philosophies. I’ve known parents (including African Americans) who pulled their children out of the quilts-of-the-underground-railroad type programs because the curriculum wasn’t traditional enough. They would in effect criticise that while the kids could discuss quilts of the underground railroad, they couldn’t tell you the DATES the underground railroad was in existence. (This is an anology, the actual criticism centered on the way a child was taught about the Oregon Trail: kid could draw a covered wagon but couldn’t explain the where or when or why.) In fact, the education-for-the-test approach is one that is favored by most nations – nations we are compared to and need to compete with – and many parents. The idea being, if it’s a GOOD test, a good measure of learning, why not teach to it? I don’t necessarily agree with that philosophy, and I agree that having 7 and 8 year olds cry as result of the pressure is not the answer. However, to call this approach ‘dumbing down’ or racist isn’t in my view accurate either.</p>

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<p>I did my student teaching in the inner city (Lowell, MA) and then taught in the inner city (East San Jose). Lots of latinos, blacks, poor vietnamese, cambodian… gangs… I taught at the high school level. Chemistry.</p>

<p>You cannot think at a higher level if you do not understand the basics. If you miss the basics, you are in very deep yogurt. IMHO, elementary schools spend way too much time on fluff. Teach kids to read well, write well, and do arithmetic well, THEN do the rest. Art, music, science, history… all fluff if you can’t read, write, and calculate.</p>

<p>That said, it is possible to teach reading, writing, and calculating WITHOUT RESORTING TO TEST PREP TRASH. Your administrators are teaching a fear of school, not a love of learning. Perhaps it is time to reexamine the approach.</p>

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<p>excellent post, dmd…</p>

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<p>I’ve been apart of that system. It’s horrible but if you can conquer it you’ll be stronger for it.</p>

<p>That being said, I lucked out by meeting Ben Carson as a kid. He grew up in my city, went to a pretty bad school and still managed to be one of the most famous neurosurgeons in the world.</p>

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<p>Problem started when schools started mixing different skill levels within the same classroom. In our system, you have 5th graders who are gifted sitting in a classroom with kids who are reading at a 1st/2nd grade level. Since everyone has to pass the annual state exam (FCAT, in our state), they all get to sit and do the test booklet together for umpteen weeks. </p>

<p>Back in the day, we had different classes, and even different “reading groups” within those same classes (different vocab and spelling lists, different books, everything). We performed Shakespeare in both 5th and 6th grade- each of the top level English classes performed a different play (we did Taming of the Shrew and then MacBeth the next year). Point is, that would never go on now because there aren’t 25 kids sitting in a classroom who each, can pull off 1/25th of the work.</p>

<p>When my son was in 5th grade, his teacher asked me to come in and pull a group of kids into the pod during class and go over enrichment materials while the rest of the class were doing basic math facts and fundamentals in prep for the state tests. This was strictly hush-hush because it was “against rules.” How lame is that?</p>

<p>If we just went back to ability grouping, we wouldn’t have this problem (politically incorrect).</p>

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<p>“I’d be interested to hear from any parents who have seen this in action, and especially any black or latino parents. Have you experienced it? How have you handled it? Its a toxic brew of NCLB, the bigotry of low expectations and just plain dumbing down, as I see it. Of course, if this turns out to be the case at the new HS I will of course try and compensate any way I can, up to and including switching schools (premature right now, but I’m already planning just in case.”</p>

<p>I am the single mom of 5, all URMs, differing races/ethnicities due to blended family through adoption. One just graduated from college on her way to grad school, and the next 3 all in college. Last one is a junior in high school.</p>

<p>They all attended public high school in a rural, small southern town with a high F & R lunch population and much racial diversity. We really do live on the “other” side of the train tracks. We did relocate here from the Bay area so the kiddos had a definite contrast of educational curriculum. We did what we always do, make the best of the situation.</p>

<p>Many of the basic and required high school courses adhere to the NCLB policies our district and state of chosen to implement. End-of-the-year testing is mandatory to pass all English (I, II, III, IV), algebra, physics, civics/economics, us history and so on. So the teachers teach the test. If the students do not pass they fail the class. Lots of pressure on the teachers and the students.</p>

<p>Whether my kiddos went to a poor, rural school or a private powerhouse or a higly acclaimed district magnet I at home always expected and demanded the very best from them. Not what the standards of the school, district or state had but what we as a family determined they needed to master and not just academically.</p>

<p>The skills and educational learning they acquired at school was a small starting point. Summer programs, athletic and sports participation, community service and leadership roles were mandatory. Not for resume building but for character building. If they needed extra/supplemental academics they asked at the school first. Asked their teacher, another teacher, a counselor, anyone who would listen. </p>

<p>Our high school’s “report card” is one of the lowest in the district with an over capacity population. Son who graduated last year was offered the opportunity to transfer to the district’s gifted and talented magnet along with an offer to attend the state’s science and math boarding school. He turned down both.</p>

<p>He along with his other sibs have realized that school is not just about him. It is about his community, the one he lives in. Becoming a leader in the classroom, on the athletic field and in the local community was about encouraging others to join him. To help make a difference from within.</p>

<p>Did he get the best possible academic preparation for the colleges he was eventually accepted to? Probably not. But that wasn’t why he stayed. He stayed because he believes that there is more to school than GPAs, SAT scores, AP scores and NMFs. Its about contributing in a positive and LASTING way. And after meeting with staff and teachers this year, he is still talked about and has others to follow in his path. He never wanted to be the hometown hero, but someone who believed all his fellow students could be so much more than what was initially expected of them.</p>

<p>As an old poster on CC many know my mantra to my kiddos of “to whom much has been given, much is expected.”</p>

<p>Son still believes that change must come from within, not to be foisted upon with a better than thou implementation. He spends his breaks back home and in the community and back in his high school. I said with all the wonderful summer programs, internships and years-abroad his university offers why isn’t he participating in those???</p>

<p>His answer “to whom much is given, much is expected.”</p>

<p>Have I mentioned how much I miss all my kiddos recently?</p>

<p>Kat</p>

<p>as far as military recruiting our family does not take such a “negative” view, I am proud and humbled to have a child attending a service academy</p>

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<p>Doubleplay, you missed to whole point of the OP statement. The problem basis is not about your kids or there abilities over others kids. Its about how laying the foundation of kids from different socio-economic backgrounds are different in this country. It do not matter what your kid can do because it is irrelevant. So please do use all an favor and delete your post.</p>

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<p>“Problem started when schools started mixing different skill levels within the same classroom. In our system, you have 5th graders who are gifted sitting in a classroom with kids who are reading at a 1st/2nd grade level. Since everyone has to pass the annual state exam (FCAT, in our state), they all get to sit and do the test booklet together for umpteen weeks.” </p>

<p>If your white, then you are clueless. Maybe for you that was the case. But coming from a black perspective you are just killing me. Kids with different skill levels arise from different circumstances. You just blindly addressing the issue with you one dimensionally stating “mixing” how can such stalk differences arise? You need to question that Doubleplay.</p>

<p>If we just went back to ability grouping, we wouldn’t have this problem (politically incorrect).</p>

<p>I will get to the meat of the matter. What do ability grouping have to do with this issue of blacks and other minorities getting a less of an education than the majorities in this nation. Don’t hijack this tread. Do every one a favor and carry your conservative statement in your own threads.</p>

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<p>This is going to the top. This issue will be address.</p>

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<p>I’ve seen a huge change in this since NCLB. Our local elementary school has given itself over to a test prep driven curriculum. I don’t know if whiter schools have not had similar changes.</p>

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<p>The Seattle Times just ran a series on this. A mostly black school was suddenly getting more rich white students due to changing home buying patterns. The white parents raised money for enrichment programs etc. The school felt that such “help” endangered the drill type work they were doing with the black kids and ended the spacial programs. Whites pulled out of the school and the school admin was happy again. Very interesting story.</p>

<p><a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2003657172_danny08.html[/url]”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2003657172_danny08.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>don’t black kids deserve a chance to think? </p>

<p>Let me answer this question for you. Hell no. Not in the United States. We are just taught the test. And the test. Again and again. Skills for college is not important. We will teach the test. No creativity but fill them bubbles in honey. Who can fill the bubbles in get a A++++. Learning about the Harlem Renaissanceis not important because in not on the SOL test. Organic Chemistry, who really needs it.</p>

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<p>Your reference to Shakespeare and Kat’s reference to her standards for ‘after-school homeschooling’ contain the answer to your questions. </p>

<p>Wealthy students get a plethora of educational opportunities at home. They can afford to study and produce Hamlet at age 11 because the Basics+++ have been covered so thoroughly at home. My son’s childhood library was donated to primary and secondary schools. That library filled the shelves and it included dozens of beautifully illustrated books about Greek, Roman and AFrican myths. There is no mystery about why my boys love to read. They were bathed in beautiful books from the time they could sit on a lap–six months old? </p>

<p>Poor working class families, black or white, often do not have the time or resources or foresight to provide books or in-depth lessons at home. Their imperative is to survive, fullstop.</p>

<p>Although I cringe at your description of the test curriculum because it reminds me of my primary schools days–deadly dull–I am not sure the curriculum will necessarily deaden a child’s intellectual ambition–if the child gets ‘after-school homeschool lessons’ similar to the lessons Kat’s kids received–and a library card.</p>

<p>Kat–you should write a book–or at least start a thread about how to raise beautiful blooming flowers wherever they may be planted.</p>

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<p>Kat: I second Cheers’ suggestion. I also agree with her that most of the nourishment/foundation is done after school at home.</p>

<p>My wife is a sub and within our district there are pockets where the elementary school population is mostly black and hispanic. In those schools she is appalled by the fact that 4-5 grade kids can not read 1-2 grade book or can’t write a sentence that is more than 6 words long. All nourishment people talk about involves reading - the foundation.</p>

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<p>I don’t know how to respond to this. </p>

<p>I don’t think I mentioned anything about my kids specifically, but OK…</p>

<p>I read the OP as an indictment on teaching to tests. It’s a one-shoe-fits-all method of education. It’s lazy. It’s saying- take this class and do this curriculum, teach these skills (whether or not it’s needed), do these exercises.</p>

<p>There are kids who need basic skills, black and white, rich and poor, God bless them. They can’t get to the level of organic chemistry if they don’t have reading and reasoning skills. </p>

<p>I didn’t read into the OP that this was about black vs. white, but rather test prep vs. learning to think, interpret, analyze, create, think. Our schools spends months- almost a quarter of every school year- on test prep, whether the students need it or not. What a waste of time.</p>

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<p>If your elementary school, black or white, is using Guided Reading groups rather than basal reading texts, count your lucky stars. Guided Reading has small groups of kids sit with little books about 10 pages each at age 5-7, and they advance at their own rate by ability level. It’s very dynamic and masks a return to the old “ability grouping” without all the rigidity. It’s called “dynamic grouping” because nobody’s kept in any one reading group. As soon as they move from “Book Level C” to “Level D” they can sit with a new group. Teachers do “Running Records” to determine when they’re ready to jump up a step.
Ask if your child’s class is using any of these: “Guided Reading” or “Levelled Texts” or “Fountas and Pinnell.” How are they using “Running Records”–how often is your child checked for progress and bumped up, in other words. Ask your teacher.
That’s different than how they divided a class in the '60’s with the year-long category of “bluebirds, robins and orioles” (code for: slow, medium, fast readers) and there was no mobility until the following year.
As for writing, if the teacher is properly trained (big IF) then spelling should be incorporated into daily writing lessons, with developmental expectations that unfold between ages 5-7 from iniitial consonants to final consonants, then filling in “any” vowel, then the correct vowel. By second grade they should be hearing about rules such as doubling consonants following the short vowels, or crossing out the “y” for the “i” before adding “er” and “est.” Learning a spelling strategy (such as noticing correctly spelled words on a classroom “word wall” or posters) is more valuable than the Friday spelling tests because it’s happening ALL the time. Being taught ways to memorize new spelling words is also important, so if there are weekly spelling tests, that’s fine, but it’s just one piece of the puzzle about learning how to spell.
There should be a systematic buildup of sight-recognition words starting in Kindergarten with around 10-20 (the, she, me, it…), so they enter First Grade with some sight words and don’t have to sound everything out.
In First Grade, they should be hearing about some “strategies” because all reading is NOT “sound it out, honey.” They should be encouraged to gather context cues from pictures, realize similar words, be asked as they read, “does that sound right?” or “does that make sense?” Allow them time at home when reading to you to figure it out themselves but if they’re struggling, supply the word. Reading should remain always pleasurable and books should be appropriate to personal reading level so it’s a positive experience.
If this sounds like your child’s program, it’s contemporary.
If instead you only see worksheets, and everyone in the room is reading the same story but at a different pace, then be concerned.
I taught in inner-city and high-poverty rural schools, grades one and two.
NCLB was devastating to me because too much of the school year was hijacked by tests.
The kids cried during tests because we teachers were forbidden from helping them as they worked, so they had emotional meltdowns that their usual requests for help were met with “I can’t help you on the test.” and folded arms. I hated it and went home and cried over it.
I taught 200 children to read in the decade I taught (second career). I had enlightened white administrators in the rural school (roughly in thirds white, black, latino) who sought that literacy training.
When we moved to this area, and i tried to teach in a Buffalo charter school, but was absolutely fry-roasted by black administrators any time I deviated from the test-oriented approach. I resigned.
There is nothing wrong with tryiing to raise standards in poor urban schools,
in fact everything right to do so. The test thing is out-of-control in the early elementary grades.</p>

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<p>No, but in your initial post you blasted the educational system at how they should group kids to abilities like they did in the back of the day. A tier system in one class. How will this solve the problem of teaching to the test?</p>

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<p>Some beautiful thoughts on this thread. Cheer, katwkittens and bigappledaddy. Those are the ones that are sticking with me at this moment. I’m sure there are others.</p>