Go to the reception. I bet it’ll be in a nice hotel, there’ll be nice food, you’ll meet lots of nice, smart kids from Hawai’i with whom you may want to keep in touch. 
Just make sure you don’t get taken in. Bask in the glory of getting in to Berkely from your school… but remember, URochester is just as good even if, being far away, it’s not as well-known, and if you do a gap year you will end up at a perfect place for you (meaning, excellent academically without breaking the bank).
Bad advice from your counselor. Why go knowing you cannot attend?
^she could go to mingle and to enjoy a reception in a nice hotel. I’m sure many other kids go as “tourists”, too.
I suppose, but she really wanted to go there so it might be difficult emotionally. My daughter wanted nothing to do with schools she knew she wasn’t going to attend. But it’s up to her of course!
@MYOS1634 - I am sorry, but I think your post #289 is elitist. I get what you are saying about lack of rigor in coursework at UH, but standardized test scores are not a reliable proxy for ability and I am sure UH has many very capable students who are there for economic reasons.
My son was a NM finalist, great scores, but wasn’t happy at his first college (a small LAC) and dropped out. He later transferred to a Cal State university-- which I assume you would think of as being equivalent to UH. He did comment on comparative lack of course rigor. But he also earned a prestigious fellowship that presented an educational opportunity far better than anything he could likely have achieved at Berkeley (a spot he had turned down in the college app process – locally Berkeley is perceived as prestigious, but large & impersonal and not a particularly good choice for undergrad education, particularly for my so who preferred a small college setting).
I have heard stories like my son’s repeated over and over again from parents of smart kids who ended up at less selective universities. The more typical story is of undergrads working closely with professors on research. Students who stand out from the others are often presented with opportunities that they would not get in a more competitive environment.
I’d also add that my son’s specific comment to me had been about expected reading - he said the CSU was like high school, with readings from a single text, whereas at his other college they would have been assigned readings from original source material – he referenced specific works. I responded, “what’s stopping you from reading that other material on your own?” – and I sent him internet links where he could download the specific books he mentioned for free.
Here in California it is very common for students to go the community college to university route simply for economic reasons. I would assume that UH is no worse than any of the community colleges in our state, which are open enrollment (although some do also have honors programs).
I think that that students like the OP can do well at UH (or any equivalent), if they take ownership of their education and recognize that they need to take initiative and seek out opportunities.
I also think that no matter how high an SAT or ACT score, it is monumentally stupid to take on an unmanageable amount of debt for an undergraduate education, and unkind and short-sighted for students to acquiesce when their aging parents take on such debt.
The OP and her twin have some difficult choices to make – but I think the finances dictate that they will either be attending UH this year, or some other college where their test scores put them well above the norm for that college in a future year – because those are the only colleges likely to award them enough merit aid to make an education affordable. They really need full tuition scholarships, or something close to that, to make it work – not just a $10K or $15K merit award. The OP has already said that she does not consider UAH an acceptable option – so she and her sister have their work cut out for them.
So it is not as if they have a choice between UH and Berkeley, or UH and Stanford – which is the thinking that drove their initial application process. Rather they are limited by what they can afford.
I just don’t think it’s helpful for another adult to feed into that prestige/rank thought process. It’s a luxury that can be indulged by the wealthy, but simply creates unnecessary feelings of shame and disappointment among students like the OP who clearly have the intelligence to cope with and rise above limitations that are simply part of life.
To the OP: if you have attended private schools, and if you do enroll at UH, you are going to be exposed to a more economically diverse student body than you are used to, and probably a more age-diverse. Take advantage of the learning opportunities that provides, and remember that learning takes place outside the classroom as well as inside.
Also, keep in mind that you can use UH as if it were a community college, with the hope of transferring later on. Need based aid might be more helpful to you as junior transfer – and you may easily be able to work yourself up to junior status after only one year at UH - because your parents aren’t poor. If they only have to fund two years of private education for you and your twin, that’s half the cost of funding four years, and may be much more doable. If your father can afford $15K per year for each of you, perhaps that money can be segregated or deposited in a 529 account so that there are extra funds to draw on to pay for your final 2 years of education.
Your college degree will come from the college you graduate from, not from the one you started at.
I am very impressed by your maturity, your writing ability, and the grace you exhibit in communications here, even in responding to some that are blunt in their criticism (including my own). I am 100% confident that you will do well in your life and with your education, even though the goal of “getting off the island” may still be a few years away. Your education and life is not dictated by where you go to college next year or even the next 4 years – that is only the beginning. And if you do attend grad school, no one is going to care any more where your undergrad degree came from.
To be blunt, your guidance counselor does not sound like she has a lot on the ball. The parties held for admitted students would most likely be given by local alumni … who have nothing to do with what financial aid is awarded by these schools for which you are an out of state student and not entitled to aid. The whole idea to go there to ask the local alumni for additional aid is misguided at best and likely to be extremely awkward all the way around. And there’s no way it will result in additional financial aid.
You’d be better served spending those ~ 4 hours starting to brainstorm ideas for a gap year and compiling research about schools with significant merit awards so you can reapply to a different list next year.
Attending UH is not the same as attending a CSU’s or a community college in California, because at a community college in California you have gifted dual enrolled students, students who are there because they’re aiming for a UC, etc. Perhaps not a majority, but a sufficient number. There are many students who see these as the first level of further studies. CSU 's can also have perks - I wouldn’t hesitate recommending Chico state honors to OP or SDSU honors because there’d be a sufficient number of high achieving peers, even if OP would be a 'big fish ’ there. I would however hesitate in recommending CSU’s Bakersfield. Can OP do OK at UH? Certainly. And UH has a couple fields in which it is relatively strong. But there are better choices. If UH is the only choice left, so be it, but there will likely be better fits between the Nacac list and a gap year.
Virtually all high achieving students from Hawaii leave. Based on the numbers in the CDS, there’d likely be a literal handful of students in the entire freshman class with a profile similar to OP.
I understand that OP and her tiger mother speak about prestige, but that’s not my point. My point is academic fit.
It’s not elitist to recognize that different universities serve different students differently. UH is better than nothing, but there’s better than UH for this student.
I wouldn’t confuse OP with these refinements. They may make sense to an adult, but not OP.
It’s nuts for a kid to take on 200k to “get away from HI.” You can leave in 4 years. OP doesn’t have this perspective. She seems to see this as natural, understandable.
But how many schools on the NACAC list are going to give enough merit to be cheaper than U Rochester?
They cannot count on need based aid to be enough since their FAFSA EFC is over $30,000.
As we have seen, acceptance is not enough.
It is too late in the year for Ohio State, Temple, and other schools where merit might have brought the cost down closer to $20k.
MYOS- there is for sure better than UH for this student. But not this year, based on the application strategy and the financial need. Calmom’s point is that for all of us to beat the dead horse that XYZ “hidden gem” university would have given the twins enough merit to attend-- is kind of irrelevant. The twins have the acceptances they have. The families finances are what they are. And heading off to Rochester or Berkeley knowing that you can only afford one year and then have to figure out a transfer school, deal with the finances all over again does nobody much good.
Some of us are saying- go to UH and make it work. Some of us are saying take a gap year and come up with a better list of affordable colleges.
But stating that “virtually all high achieving students from Hawaii leave” does not help the OP.
Saying UR is the better offer ignores that it’s not affordable. Every year, day in and day out, we tell kids, if you cannot afford it, it’s not an option. What make this case different? The fact Dad would hock the house or take crazy loans?
For 17 year old thinking, some here are endorsing taking the worse situation, because they don’t think UH is good enough. she has only the cards in her hand that she was dealt. Lots of flagships aren’t perfect. We tell those kids to be rational, that they can flee in 4 years.
My daughter worked as a student in the admissions office at her college…and she was often taken on these social meet and greets for accepted students. There will be NO ONE there who can discuss financial aid. NO ONE. These events are run by the admissions office…to get folks together. There will be students and office of admissions folks, and alums. There will not be financial aid officers.
It’s a social.
Agree with @mommdc that there will be few if any private schools below 30K (with merit) on the NACAC list. Merit awards are meant to lure upper-middle and wealthier kids away from their full-pay in-state options. They seem to have a minimum price around 27 - 32K or so. Really, not great when you multiply by two.
There are some WUE schools that are close to 20K.
OP: Please look through the WUE site carefully and make a list of schools that might work for you and your sister (budget-wide and academic-wise). A few may have merit awards even better than the WUE rate, too, so browse the scholarship section of the financial aid website.
You can call and see if it’s too late to apply for this year. If the WUE rate is available to transfers, you can start at UH for a year, but if not a gap year might be a good financial strategy.
Also note U of Utah gives you instate after year, WUE may not actually beat that offer if you get presidential OOS as an option. USU is more generous but is a country location aggie school. You are too late for this years scholarships though. You must make sure if you do a gap year that scholarships are available apply to gap yr applicants. That would be for any school you look to apply to.
While I think your obsession with test scores is ridiculous, I would just say that a quick look at the CDS from UH and my son’s CSU simply reinforces my case. UH obviously as a stronger student body (by stats) than my son’s CSU:
Percentage of students with ACT composite 30-36:
UH: 5.7%
CSU: 3.28%
Percentage of students with ACT composite 24-29:
UH: 37.9%
CSU: 27.01%
My son’s CSU also has the distinction of enrolling a class where 21.72% of ACT-takers had scores in the range of 12-17 - compared with only 4.5% that low at UH…so obviously a much lower cutoff on the CSU end of things.
My son was never stupid enough to think that his test scores or high school GPA made him smarter than others, and he made friends and became actively engaged on his campus. He enrolled in the CSU because it was the only school he could get into as a transfer that he could afford – but in hindsight it was one of the best choices he ever made, given the opportunity it created.
Fortunately by that time, after several years in the work force, my son also had the experience and maturity to realize that high school GPA and standardized test scores are not useful metrics for determining the abilities of fellow human beings.
Bottom line, if OP decides to limit her circle of associates at college to those with ACT scores above 30, then roughly 1 out of 20 students she meets at UH will fit that description. But if she is willing to also indulge friendships with students who score in the 24-29 range… then she’s getting darn near close to half of the student body (43.6% according to CDS).
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This is one of those statements that obviously is impossible (and therefore not credible). You mean to say that a large number of high achieving students from wealthy families leave. Most high school students in Hawaii (as in other states) come from families who could in no way afford to finance a private education or to pay out-of-state tuition at public universities in the continental US, and the vast majority of college students in all states attend their in-state public colleges… again, because that is what they can afford.
Thank you for your very kind offer to fund her education at Rochester. I am sure she will be happy to PM you a link to a Go Fund Me page where you can help her and her sister fill the financial gap.
OK, here’s an out-of-the-box idea that may work and could get you in to a prestigious college on the mainland:
Can your dad save $125K each for the 2 of you over 5 years? (I thought I heard $15-20K/year was doable; and there’s some mommy slush fund somewhere or something). Basically, be able to scrouge up $250K in 5 years.
Hawaii Pacific has 3-2 engineering programs with WashU and USC and has fairly reasonable tuition:
https://hpu.edu/CNCS/Departments/Mathematics/Engineering/
If you commute, can get scholarships at HPU to cover tuition, and take out loans and maybe work, you may have enough to afford the last 2 years at the prestigious mainland engineering school even if they don’t offer any fin aid or scholarships (and they may some). You would have to do well in the STEM classes, though, in order to transfer. WashU also has potential scholarships, and if you enter their 3+3 program that leads to a master’s, they discount the tuition (so that it’s essentially the same as 2 years at full-pay): https://engineering.wustl.edu/prospective-students/dual-degree/Pages/financial-assistance-scholarships.aspx
If you don’t make it. . . well, at least you’d have gotten a free undergrad education and have enough money saved up to get a masters even at full-pay on the mainland (somewhere prestigious if you do well).
Otherwise, you could go to UH (maybe commute, get as much scholarship money as possible), get dad to save up, do well in undergrad, and try for a prestigious 1-year masters on the mainland (if dad saves up, there definitely would be enough to finance one of those for both of you two in 4 years time).
I think you shouldn’t look at this as yearly figures. How much, all-in, do your parents have saved up for college for you two right now? How much do they expect to bring in over the next 4-5 years (taking in to account, salary, military pension, etc.) and how much of that can they spare?
BTW, the good thing about the 3-2 plan is that as all the paying is in the back-end (assuming that you get enough scholarships and commute and maybe take out the Federal loans and work, you could even be net positive cash flow going to HPU), at least if there is a familial financial crisis, at least you wouldn’t have ended up paying and still end up forced to transfer back and not even get that prestigious mainland degree despite spending a lot of money.
Also, the grads of LAC affiliates of WashU get a 35% tuition discount for an engineering Masters at WashU (if you decide against the 3-2 program and go right after undergrad instead): https://engineering.wustl.edu/prospective-students/dual-degree/Pages/masters-degree-programs.aspx
But all of this is keyed on HPU being cash flow neutral or possibly even positive.
If the two of you can amass $50K through loans and work over 5 years, $140K/2 years means dad just needs to come up with $90K for each of you ($180K total) over 5 years. Rochester, even after scholarships, would be about $390K total. Subtract the $50K each from each of you, and he’d still have to come up with $290K total over 4 years.
Re: 3+2 programs
WUStL requires a 3.25 GPA overall and in technical courses to make the transfer. USC 3+2 program admission is through its usual transfer admission process, which is competitive.
https://engineering.wustl.edu/prospective-students/dual-degree/Pages/default.aspx
http://viterbiadmission.usc.edu/threetwo/
If aiming for such a transfer pathway, it is entirely possible that starting at UH or a community college for two years may be a more cost effective way that starting at HPU.
@ucbalumnus: Well, except that WashU, while not guaranteeing a transfer, is close to certain to take you if you do well in the required courses at HPU and has a certain pathway for you to graduate in 2 years in engineering if they take you. If you start out at UH or a HI CC, even if you get in somewhere on the mainland, they may not accept many of your courses and allow you to graduate in 2 more years. It doesn’t seem like UH or the HI CC’s have any articulation agreements with any mainland unis.
Again, getting enough scholarships to make the 3 years at HPU cashflow neutral or positive is key.