Don't let your kids waste their time on Sports

Maybe sounds like an overgeneralization to some, but that’s the takeaway I’ve gotten from my kids’ experience in the admissions process this year.

I have twin boys, both good students who took essentially the same core classes, lots of APs, close GPAs, both got National Merit Commended, both with SATs in the high 1400s.

One son, I’ll call him Sports Son, his main extracurricular activity is sports, namely basketball and soccer. He was a starter on both teams, captain of the soccer team this year, basketball team went to State the last two years. He is also secretary of the French club and in a club focused on community service.

The other son, I’ll call him Debate Son, he is president of the Speech and Debate Team, and News Editor on the school newspaper. Consistently places at 1 or 2 events at almost every speech tournament he goes to, qualified for state speech tournament every year except freshman year, got to semifinals last year, qualified for national tournament last year.

Both sons applied to UT Austin business school, and SMU. Sports Son also applied to UC Irvine as a reach school, and Arkansas. Debate Son also applied to George Washington.

Sports Son got into UT, but not the business school, and to SMU and Arkansas, not accepted at other schools. Debate Son was accepted at UT and SMU already, hasn’t heard back from GW yet (he applied regular decison). SMU offered both sons merit scholarships, but Debate Son’s is significantly higher than Sports Son’s. This is causing a little bit of friction between the two, especially as Sports Son, who wants to major in business, convinced Debate Son to apply to business school at UT even though Debate Son doesn’t really want to major in business, on the rationale that if you get into business school you can always change to a non-business major, but not the other way.

The only real difference between my two boys is the extracurriculars. I remember back when the boys were starting middle school I attended a talk with two college admissions consultants, basically a sales pitch for their services, but a lot of good general information, too, and one thing I really remember them stressing was that unless your child is likely to be recruited as a D-I athlete, being on a sports team, or drill team or cheerleader is not going to do much for their chances of getting into college, and if the sports commitment is making the difference between getting a B+ and an A-, they’re better off dropping the sports and focusing on grades. Because Sports Son overall was getting good grades, I didn’t really think about this advice when he was in high school, but now I’m kicking myself. I see how the heavy time commitment in sports precluded him participating in another, more academically focused activities that would have better prepared him for college - or at least for college applications.

I feel like sports coaches, and sports culture in general, sell kids a bill of goods. They make it sound like sports is the only way that kids can learn teamwork and leadership, but frankly I see that Debate Son had way more opportunity to learn real leadership and teamwork in his extracurricular activities. Everything in sports is so coach-driven, even the team captains are just running the coach’s plays, and everything is regimented by the coaches, you go to the practices that the coach sets, and do what the coach dictates at practice. And ultimately, you’re just a cog in the team. You can be a talented player, and be unlucky to be on a team that is overall not that good, or you can luck out and be a middle-of-the-road player on a team that has enough better players that you can ride their coattails to a state championship. And ultimately the skills you learn have nothing to do with succeeding in college.

Debate Son, on the other hand, sank or swam on his own talents and work. His individual wins in speech and debate competitions directly show that, no matter how anyone else on his team did in their events. His success in debate didn’t come from just attending regular practices and doing what his judge said, he researched and wrote and practiced his cases and speeches on his own time and initiative. I also saw how this made him so much better a researcher and writer, and better informed about the world than his brother. Ditto for his work on the newspaper. And this fall he was tournament director when his school hosted many schools from around the state to compete. The speech coach was there for backup if something went wrong, but he led a team that ran a two day tournament with multiple events running from prelims to quarters to semifinals to finals, they were responsible for organizing that, making sure it ran on time, that rooms and judges were assigned, managed volunteers, made sure results were correctly tabulated, that showed a lot more leadership and teamwork that is more like what people have to do in their careers than anything being a sports team captain can do.

Oh, I know how people will say that kids need to be well-rounded, not just be academically/intellectually minded, but develop a lifelong love of physical activity for their health, etc., and I agree - but do youth sports as we do them here in America really accomplish this? It seems like from a very young age, even at the peewee level, kids who don’t “show potential” are winnowed out of sports and relegated to being at best, lifelong spectators, by coaches and youth sports leagues more concerned with winning than giving equal playing time to encourage lifelong participation regardless of ability. But I digress. Ultimately given the low ROI of high school sports in terms of college/life skills prep and college resume for the high amount of time requirement, that precludes participation in more useful extracurriculars, I am surprised that so many parents who want their kids to get into competitive schools still also encourage them to be involved in athletics.

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Counterpoint (but very conditional): our feederish HS’s PE requirement is actually an athletic requirement. There are ways around it, but many of our most successful college applicants were in varsity sports and often captains and such.

But in our HS, it is entirely possible for our most successful college applicants to do that AND other things. Certainly take the hardest classes and get top grades, possibly also debate and many other activities.

My point is I think this really depends on the nature of your HS. Ours is deliberately structured to make athletics a pro and not a con when it comes to private college admissions. At other schools, it may well be a problem to balance trying to be an athlete and doing the other things normally expected for highly selective college admissions.

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Kids should participate in the activities they enjoy. It’s not all about college admissions and winning prizes. It’s about enjoyment. Some kids love sports and some kids love debate. And that’s great! The important thing is that they are having fun and using their out of school time in a way that feels personally fulfilling to them. You can’t live your life trying to please adcoms.

If a kid loves playing a sport, if kid gets enjoyment from it (plus good health, teamwork, leadership, resilience, and whatever else), then it is most definitely not wasted time, in my opinion.

But, sure, parents should be realistic that most student athletes are not going to be recruited, nor are sports an automatic ticket to the college of your choice. It should be about the kid having fun first and foremost. If it’s fun, then it’s not a waste.

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I let my kids drive what extracurricular activities they were interested in and passionate about NOT what would get them into a better college. Both kids were sports driven. Sports son also had work, veterinary, camp counselor and hospice volunteer experience but no other academic clubs etc. He got into the schools he applied to with great scholarships, guaranteed admission into veterinary school and is about to graduate at the top of his class (top 4 for sure) as a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine. Top schools have shown interest in him for his internship/residency. So I feel sports didn’t hurt him at all, in fact they loved his essay about a niche sport he competed in.

My view is follow their passions. Every student is different, don’t just try to fit a mold.

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A few comments:

– Agree totally with @worriedmomucb that kids should do the things they love as ECs. HS should not be considered a four year college application experience – it is a time of growth and learning. For some kids, the exercise, camaraderie, etc. of a sports team is a wonderful outlet while others prefer a variety of different activities.

–Everyone should understand upfront that unless a student is a recruited athlete, admissions officers consider sports to be an EC on par with many other ECs – no more and no less.

–I don’t think you can assume your son’s applications were identical – the LORs, essays, etc. could have been differentiators (in addition to their ECs). In addition, it sounds like DebateSon found a high level of success in his activities-- one cannot assume SportsSon would have had the same level of achievement.

–Thankfully they both have nice acceptances and hopefully both sons will move forward and be happy where they wind up.

–I don’t think your SportsSon’s decision from UT was impacted by his brother applying to the b-school.

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I don’t consider my kids’ time in sports to be a waste of time. One was involved in sport and enjoyed it enough to continue it at the club level in college, but I wouldn’t consider it a passion. He had a solid application with strong stats and other ECs including leadership.

My other son essentially has one EC. A team sport that he’s absolutely passionate about. He’s good enough to be recruited but has decided to play at the club level in college. His sport is unlikely to move the needle, and that’s ok.

Sports have given a lot to my kids. We encouraged them to do the things that interested them - both in school and in their extracurriculars. At no time did we ever talk about how things would look on a college application. We let them live their lives and figured things would work out. We never looked at sports, or any other activities, as the means to an end.

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You might have something there about the nature of my sons’ high school. It goes by a block schedule, where you have 8 classes a semester, and have A days and B days, on A days you take classes 1,3,5,7, B days classes 2,4,6,8. Ostensibly it gives students the opportunity to earn more credits over 4 years than a more traditional schedule - except athletics is double blocked, because coaches have to have their athletes in class every day, in addition to the daily afterschool practice, and of course you have to take athletics all four years, and every semester, even in the offseason. With double blocking of athletics, the difference in number of other classes that athletes can take compared to non-athletes is even greater than at a school with a more traditional schedule. On top of that, many non-sports extracurricular activities don’t require students to take a class all four years to participate (speech and debate doesn’t), and don’t have mandatory daily afterschool practice. So when a college that only wants to accept so many students from any one high school is comparing a non-athlete who filled up their schedule and after school time with a diverse array of activities, many of them academically enriching, with an athlete who filled up their schedule and time with just sports, the contrast is pretty stark.

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This is the same at our high school

I don’t think a sweeping generalization of “don’t waste time on sports” is helpful. Plenty of kids gain a lot of maturity, learn about commitment, and being part of a team. (All things that will be useful down the road.) Granted, a typical varsity sport athlete isn’t going to be recruited for D1, but that doesn’t mean that sports are useless.

The discrepancy of the merit awards between the two boys is mentioned, but in my experience many merit awards are given based solely on GPA and/or test scores, without taking extracurriculars into account. Unless the debate son received an extra scholarship having to do specifically with debate, etc.

Just my opinion, but all of my kids have become more disciplined through participating in sports, whether on teams or individual sports. I am very happy that our high school requires an athletic commitment each year.

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Unless both sons submitted identical essays, they are not equal in the eyes of AO. Plus (my personal believe and have zero proof for this) whoever was reading the application may have some subconscious bias in preferring Debate Son over Sports Son. There is certain level of randomness to this process and someone can do “everything right” and not get in while another kid with lower stats and less activity gets in. Numerous posts rant about this every day.

I learned to let the kids do what they want, that way if outcome is less than ideal, they won’t blame me for messing up their lives.

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We are not a sporty family, so my familiarity with HS sports “culture” is mostly what I hear from co-workers, neighbors, other family members…

But I think the level of athletic achievement that’s required for a HS kid to have “sports” make the difference in college admissions is rather high. And I have observed that parents (maybe with some gentle persuasion by a coach?) overestimate their kids athletic ability.

I don’t think this is the case with the other common EC’s. Theater parents observe that their incredibly talented kid doesn’t get cast… that’s the nature of theater. Music parents observe that by the time their “prodigy” kid gets into a regional HS orchestra, there are ten kids with much greater talent (or the same talent, but who are willing to practice 6 hours a day, 365 days a year and theirs is not). Etc. I think there is some “level settling” that happens for kids in HS, and the math genius starts to compete and realizes “I’m a solid math student and I love math”, not "Hey, I’m one of the world’s 3 top HS math kids’ (unless that happens to be true).

So I think the kernel of wisdom in the OP’s post is not to overestimate what sports will DO for your kid, other than the love of the game. The parents of the violinists, the math kids, the singers, the dancers, etc. figure this out early on.

Unless you have a Yo Yo Ma level of talent kid, most parents realize that loving music, practicing hard, playing with nuance and skill is its own reward. Admissions is irrelevant.

OP- hugs. Your boys sound fantastic and I’m sure they will both figure things out.

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I think it’s worth noting that soccer and basketball are two extremely popular sports, and ones where parents seem willing to pour tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars into their kids getting coached at (if you’re including private clubs, travel leagues, etc), and to be “recruit worthy” at the large schools with very good athletic teams that you mention, high school kids need to be basically superhuman-good at basketball and soccer.

That doesn’t mean that there aren’t colleges that wouldn’t love to have your son on their team. Just looking at that list, I don’t think you applied to any of them. And it doesn’t mean that you need to be superhuman-good at ALL sports those schools offer… I don’t know enough about any one of them, but I bet they each have teams that aren’t as popular as soccer or basketball, where good-but-not-superhuman high school athletes have a good shot of getting on the team.

I think better advice would be to be realistic about whether the sports your kids enjoy plus their talents and ability are going to actually be appealing to the schools they’re applying to. It’s kind of why there are jokes about getting your kid into squash or fencing… the field is a lot smaller than for basketball or soccer. It’s really hard to be a big fish in such a big pond. But it doesn’t mean that the fish aren’t having fun and learning things that will benefit them in life.

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I think this is an interesting point though even if we focus on personal growth instead of admissions.

Given the time/monetary/injury costs of athletics, is the bang for the buck still worth it versus other activities in terms of personal growth? Doing what one loves is great but doing something else might possibly promote better development? Like eating spinach vs just eating burgers?

Kids should focus their EC on what they love to do. What they get from their EC activities is discipline, time management, team work, and leadership opportunities. For most people it doesn’t matter what they do as long as they dedicate themselves to it and take opportunities to learn and grow. My D did sports and built a “business” offering lessons to younger athletes. It’s not much of a business of course, but she anticipates specific market needs (eg team tryouts), manages clients and their parents expectations, manages her billing/receivables,
Markets her services, and makes $. Lots of
Business skills are there for the learning.

I’m sorry about the outcome for sports
Son. It’s so tough. But he has good options truly. Celebrate him and help him make the most of them! Good luck!

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Where we are the sport is skiing (or rock climbing or mountain biking). Everyone thinks their kid will be an Olympic skier. (Some actually will or become guides or professional rock climbers.) They are sent to ski camps and winter time is all consuming for ski team trips. But, in my opinion, it is the ego of the parents that seems to get in the way at times. I feel like academics should come first- but that’s just our approach.

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I bet the schedule leading to less rigor is the key more than the sports itself: when the activity requires a school class spot(especially two!) all 4 years, they cannot get the transcript with the same array of “hardest courses” in a setting where it is common for the academic kids to have a 6th core course (ie double science, double History, double math) in 10-12.
Our HS does that with arts: orchestra/chorus/band kids have one out of 7 blocks filled all 4 yrs, so if they want to do 6 courses they have no study halls. 6 academic courses is max, so the 7th is commonly a study hall for the very large cohort (more than 1/3 of the entire class) who take APUSH/APsci/AP calc or HonPrecal/APEnglish/FL4 plus an elective, usually an AP or honors, in one of the cores, as a junior. The orchestra kids have to have that 7th class orchestra(which does have graded papers and assessments, and of course practice outside of class). The majority with the study hall can get a decent amount of homework done during the day. The top 1/4 start the 6-core-course path in 10th, with APChem/APphys1 as a second science or APStats as a second math.
Then, like @NiceUnparticularMan school, there is the 2 season athletic requirement after school(which can be waived if you do an outside athletic activity like my D23 dancer who danced almost 20 hrs a week). The orchestra /band kids still have to do the athletic requirement. So, for those who have played music and want to continue in HS(both of mine!), if they want the best chance at the top schools they have to do without the study hall most of the top rigor kids take. It is doable, just harder–but if mine could not have done it all and still sleep avg 8+ hrs, and get the necessary grades, we would have encouraged them to make different decisions.

Best of luck to both your kids! They will have good options at the end of allof this.

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As someone who did sports and high school, they were CRUCIAL to my social and emotional development. This may not be the case for everyone, but like previous users have mentioned, kids should do extracurriculars they enjoy.

Now this is a more gender and sports specific thing:

In my experience running girls cross country track and field, it makes a difference in admissions. In my first year running xc, I got offers from D3, D2 and NAIA schools. This is not uncommon in the sport. Obviously this differs for different sports, genders, and athletic divisions, but I know many people that got into school using track or got athletic aid for it.

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@TwinDadinTex, I sympathize with what your family is going through right now. You have two great kids who have been very involved in their respective activities, similar grades and test scores, but have some disparities in the results which is causing friction in their relationship. Sending you (and your kids) hugs.

Others have already mentioned the importance of having kids follow their own interests in high school, wherever that might lead, and with which I 100% agree. The fact that PE took up 25% of SportsSon’s classes all four years probably had a greater impact on his application, and we also don’t know what the essays and letter of recommendations indicated.

But I do want to touch on the value of sports that hasn’t been mentioned yet. Exercise is great for mental health, and for a generation of students who are experiencing higher levels of anxiety, depression, etc, that is a HUGE benefit. Additionally, it can form the bedrock of a positive mindset towards physical activity. For many adults, they feel as though exercise is a duty that they have to do and they don’t find any pleasure in it, so they tend to do as little of it as possible (with all the negatives that accompany the lack of exercise). Having a life where physical activity is a normal, expected, and enjoyable part of the day improves physical health and mental health for a lifetime, which also can form benefits in the job market as well (not to mention lower health insurance, life insurance, and general health costs).

All of this is being said by someone who wishes that sports/physical activity had been more prioritized when I was growing up, because it’s a lot harder to build the habits as an adult than if one grew up with them.

Congrats to your sons on the acceptances they have received so far. Though things might not have turned out exactly as you expected, they both have great options.

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I get what people are saying about letting kids do what they love, and obviously I did that with my kids which is why one did sports and one didn’t. But a big part of letting kids do what they love is letting them have the opportunity to explore a bunch of different things and find what they love. Sports is so time consuming compared to many other extracurricular activities, it limits the opportunity to do that exploring. Kids get into youth sports in early elementary school, long before they are exposed to the other options, they have to get into it that early to have a chance to get on the competitive travel teams that start in later elementary school, in order to have a shot at making the team in middle school, and high school. We got both sons into both soccer and Cub Scouts in early elementary school, and both seemed to like them both. After a season of soccer on the same team Sports Son got recruited to a really competitive team, while Debate Son stayed on the more laid back team. Debate Son’s soccer coach had no problem with him missing one game a season to attend the cub scout campout, Sports Son’s competitive soccer coach made it clear that was out of the question. So Debate Son got to experience campouts, went on to Boy Scouts, and although he ultimately decided not to continue scouts in high school beyond his Star rank, all the activities he did in scouts, including the merit badges he earned, allowed him to explore a wide range of interests, including potential career paths. Debate Son did soccer through 5th grade, but starting in 6th grade things got “serious” and there wasn’t an option for kids to do laid back soccer anymore, soccer made him choose between it and scouts, and so he chose scouts. Then he started doing speech in 6th grade, where it was an after school club that had optional meetings twice a week after school, and you could sign up for as many or as few Saturday tournaments as you wanted. He went to the first tournament, enjoyed it, skipped the next tournament for a campout he wanted to go to, then won a trophy at the tournament after that, and was hooked. When he decided to drop scouts in 9th grade (around the time he got a taste of theatre with a role in the high school musical), it was after having the experience of scouts, speech and debate, and theatre to make an informed decision about what he loved the most and wanted to spend the most time on, at 15. And he still had the opportunity to join the newspaper after that. Sports Son missed out on the scout experience, and could never have come home at 11 years old and decided he wanted to go to a speech tournament, his coach wouldn’t have allowed him to miss a game, nor would he have been able to do the musical and decide theatre was fun but was not for him like my other son did, because the commitment competitive sports foreclosed the possibility of trying these new things and deciding if they were what he wanted or not back in 2nd or 3rd grade. So, I get what people are saying about letting kids pick the activities they enjoy rather than what would look good on a college application, but in that case we need to be clear-eyed about how little time and latitude competitive youth sports allows kids to actually gather the experience to make that choice.

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Yes, generally speaking my view is if the only question is whether to do a sport you love or a club people say is good for college, but you would rather do the sport, then you should definitely do the sport for all the reasons people are mentioning.

Where I think it gets tricky is if the sport will cause serious academic tradeoffs. Of course if you are just doing the sport because people say it will be good for college, that makes it easy again–don’t compromise academics for that. But if you truly love the sport but are finding it is affecting what you can do academically, now you have some serious decisions to make.

And personally, I would not say to always choose academics. But the reality of the situation is it might well affect where you end up in college. And I am OK with that because I don’t think exactly where you end up for college matters as much as some. Still, it is probably something you at least have to understand.

And, of course, you can maybe make other adjustments to try to reduce the conflict. For sure you might need to get really good at time management. But in the end, I don’t want to suggest tradeoffs are entirely avoidable, because sometimes they are not.

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My kids HS was like this as well with the top kids getting the AP or AICE diploma and some getting both.
Also the feeder middle school students were taking High School math and science in 7th or 8th grade.

Unfortunately a lot of parents don’t understand how Rigor effects their chances at selective schools

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