<p>3321 – I agree posibility, that is why they have to listen to what Dean says.</p>
<p>Garland – absolutely. This zero tolerance has not helped, only hurt.</p>
<p>They’re not a felony because of the drinking. It’s because of the patriot act.</p>
<p>The reason the drinking law is 21 is federal. States were forced into it because the feds withheld highway money if a state didn’t change the law. So, while the laws are set on a state by state basis, the feds hold the states hostage with infrastructure money. Ah. America.</p>
<p>Sax, it was heavy lobbying by small groups of people, like MADD. Does my heart go out to parents who have lost a child? Of course. Do I think their solution is working? No. Like I said, here is a large group of college presidents working for a better solution. </p>
<p>[Amethyst</a> Initiative » Welcome to the Amethyst Initiative](<a href=“http://www.amethystinitiative.org/]Amethyst”>http://www.amethystinitiative.org/)</p>
<p>I urge everyone to ask their kids colleges to join this movement, for more rational laws on alchohol.</p>
<p>I have to side with Tom on this one. Your anger should not be with the school, but with your son. According to the policies you posted, the campus security followed their own rules. Your son knowingly broke the law by getting the fake ID (and he didn’t even hide the thing well enough to cover his crime - and yes, it IS a crime). </p>
<p>There is no denying that what he did was stupid and wrong, no matter how much you justify it. The drinking age may well be set too high, but it is the law. Why do so many parents think that getting wasted is such a valuable college experience that it is okay to have a fake ID?? I’d be furious with my kid if I were paying full pay for a college education and she threw it all away for a couple of beers.</p>
<p>The best approach is for your son to go to the meeting as contrite as he can be and admit what he did, and throw himself at their mercy.</p>
<p>KK, there is a big.big difference between having a drink and getting wasted. And how did kid know possession of ID was breaking the law? As opposed to using? Many here did not. When I was in college, if anyone got caught using a fake ID, they just got turned away.</p>
<p>What many object to here is the serverity of the punishments. </p>
<p>What I would like to see is a poll of college parents and what their views are on this.</p>
<p>I’m not sure how to interpret “deferred” suspension–I think that may not mean actual suspension. I might suggest that if you get into a discussion with the school over the search, etc., you might agree to pay the $250 fine (which your son should pay), and they agree to cut up and throw away the fake ID.</p>
<p>In most states, mere possession of a fake ID is a minor crime, but it can have undesirable consequences, especially if it is a fake driver’s license–it can cause you to have your actual driver’s license suspended, for example. Federal prosecutors are not going to be interested in a college student’s fake ID, so I wouldn’t worry too much about whether it’s a federal offense or not.</p>
<p>Let me just say that I agree that it’s wrong to have a fake ID, but I think losing the money he paid for it, plus a fine that he’d have to work off, is more than sufficient.</p>
<p>[National</a> Youth Rights Association - Legislative Analysis of the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984](<a href=“http://www.youthrights.org/legana.php]National”>http://www.youthrights.org/legana.php)</p>
<p>This is a great article on how at least the drinking age has changed and why.</p>
<p>"… From the end of Prohibition until 1984 drinking ages were determined by the states, many of them had the age at 21 while several lowered the age to 18 for the purchase of beer. This was changed due to the baby boom generation and the Vietnam War. “From 1970 through 1975 nearly all states lowered their legal ages of adulthood, thirty including their legal drinking ages, usually from 21 to 18.” (Males 194) It was argued that if people were required to fight and die in a foreign war then they should be allowed the privileged of drinking alcohol. This generation exercised previously unheard of clout and political muscle, and through years of protest and many valid arguments this generation of youth gained back some lost liberty. After this period, however, public sentiment changed. The baby boomers were aging and the freedoms they for which they fought for themselves no longer seemed important when they involved someone else.</p>
<pre><code> This loss of a powerful ally allowed the modern prohibitionist movement led by Candy Lightner, the president and founder of Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD), to gain strength in this country again. The late seventies and late eighties were marked with an excess of highly publicized studies that claimed teenage alcohol was out of control and was turning into a devastating problem of epidemic proportion. This and the national mood produced an environment primed for the anti-youth, anti-alcohol legislation that became the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984.
The actual bill required “all States to raise their minimum drinking age to 21 within 2 years or lose a portion of their Federal-aid highway funds; and encourage States, through incentive grants programs, to pass mandatory sentencing laws to combat drunk driving.” (Thomas Senate Record Vote Analysis) The portion of the Federal-aid highway funds that would be lost if the state didn’t comply amounted to 5 percent in the third year and 10 percent in the fourth year…"
</code></pre>
<p>kay, ignorance of the law is not an excuse. That said, I did not know that a fake ID is a felony. I also think that getting kicked out of the dorm, or having something stamped on the OP’s sons transcript for this is far too strict in this situation. I agree with Hunt about that.</p>
<p>I do NOT want to hijack this thread. Just saying its time for a change and that powerful lobbying groups CAN and DO change the law.</p>
<p>MADD was absolutely the group I was referring to.</p>
<p>Zero tolerance is also out of hand and has been for some time.</p>
<p>Somewhere along the way common sense has taken a backseat.</p>
<p>To the OP. I am sorry this is happening to your son. Lots of great advice here on how to move forward. A private college can do anything they like. Beg for mercy.</p>
<p>NE, I agree, but the earlier poster had said the kid had “knowingly” violated the law, and I disagree with that.</p>
<p>This isn’t directed an any individual posters. Still I’m not following . . . </p>
<p>You enroll at a school, sign a housing contract, get a handbook that spells out rules and consequenses for violating those rules.</p>
<p>You violate a rule (in this case possess a fake id) and don’t want to accept the consequences spelled out in the handbook because you feel they are too severe.</p>
<p>Because, you see, an 18 year old is still a child and his brain is still developing. He will do rash things because he cannot help it. THat’s where is is developmentally. (Yep, and it is all backed up by some pretty solid research.)</p>
<p>And yet, the very rules established to protect that 18 year old and his developing brain - alcohol and pot kill brain cells and encourage more rash behavior - are foolish and their enforcement draconian? </p>
<p>Basically, folks, we don’t get to have it both ways. </p>
<p>All that aside, the fake id, now a federal offense under the patriot act, cannot be dismissed by the school with a slap on the wrist. You think the insitituion doesn’t have a backside of it’s own to protect? Remember the outrage when a student “snaps”? The institution should’ve known, intervened. . . . Imagine the public outcry if a kid, who was minldy sanctioned (fined) for a fake id does something horrible. Why the school KNEW the id was federal offense, they should’ve . . . In this age, that’s just not a risk an institution can take. </p>
<p>Do you see where all this is going? It’s not just a rigid school policy you’re up against. It’s also the institution’s fear of Big Brother.</p>
<p>The whole attitude about all of this is just a leftover product of the failed “war on drugs.” Overpunishment is a hallmark of this entire philosophy.</p>
<p>Again, good luck to the OP and her son. I feel horrible for the roommate, but I also don’t really believe the consequences to the son are going to be particularly extreme.</p>
<p>Could somebody please post a reference to the Patriot Act making mere possession of a fake ID by a college student a federal offense? I am skeptical about this. Even if it’s true, I very much doubt that any federal prosecutor would pursue such a case.</p>
<p>Ordinarylives is spot on. We may not like these laws, we can work to change them… but given the current climate in the meantime we must stress to our kids how serious these offences can be. A kid might get off, or might get in serious trouble if authorities are looking to make a statement. It’s just not worth the risk.</p>
<p>I don’t think a federal prosecutor would pursue such a case, either. But, the possession of false documents is a federal offense, now. Do I think it will get to this? No. But your kids need to be aware of this.</p>
<p>If your kid is going to have a fake, it is better to have somebody else’s ID, not altered and not faked or changed, than to have something “made” or “created.”</p>
<p>Why is the school under any requirement to enforce the law? Unless there is some law I dont know about, I dont think it is under any obligation to enforce. Schools need to step back and concentrate on their core mission of education.</p>
<p>OK, the following seems to be the federal law on false identification:
[United</a> States Code: Title 18,1028. Fraud and related activity in connection with identification documents, authentication features, and information | LII / Legal Information Institute](<a href=“18 U.S. Code § 1028 - Fraud and related activity in connection with identification documents, authentication features, and information | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute”>18 U.S. Code § 1028 - Fraud and related activity in connection with identification documents, authentication features, and information | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute)
As I read it, possession of a fake ID by a college student that he uses only to get alcohol is probably not a federal crime–unless underage purchase is a felony in the state, which it probably isn’t. Perhaps somebody else will parse the language differently.</p>
<p>“Could somebody please post a reference to the Patriot Act making mere possession of a fake ID by a college student a federal offense? I am skeptical about this. Even if it’s true, I very much doubt that any federal prosecutor would pursue such a case.”</p>
<p>Also I’m curious as to what constitutes a “fake ID”. Common sense dictates that in regards to the patriot act, it refers to a case where someone is impersonating someone else, or using a fake identity.</p>
<p>If you’re using your own photo and real name, how is that not you?</p>
<p>I agree, my son has no choice but to accept the consequences, that said, can anyone recommend any good schools in Europe?</p>
<p>Get an attorney just to advise you. Make sure there is no criminal record. That won’t go away. </p>
<p>Make plans to have him transfer. This is ridiculous. </p>
<p>My brother went to college in Buffalo in the 80’s. The University used to supply a bus to take students over the border to Fort Erie Ontario to go to the bars where the drinking age was lower. Since they used the bus, they could drink legally and get back safely. That’s a more mature approach, recognizing that the students would otherwise drive both ways. </p>
<p>Your S’s college is not a nurturing environment. Plenty of colleges are.</p>
<p>In Illinois, Florida and Colorado, possession of a fake ID is a felony.</p>
<p>In NY it can be enforced either as a felony or misdemeanor.</p>
<p>I don’t know the rest of the states. It is a good idea for your child to know the class of crime it is in whichever state they are in. Not becuase it WILL be enforced that way but because it CAN be, and some kids, like my D, who is in a felony state, choose not to have a fake because the potential is there for things to go verrrry wrong. You should just know what it is you are dealing with. </p>
<p>I mean unless you want to be the “test” case, you just should know that they CAN enforce the law up to that point. Will they? Reasonable people can hope not.</p>