Downton Abbey

Parent Cafe
881

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I suppose I am, but I’m truly losing patience with the whole lot of the Crawleys and, in fact, their class as a whole. It was my understanding that Julian Fellowes had a warm nostalgia for the days when the aristocracy controlled the nation, but he’s certainly painting an unattractive picture of these people. An earlier post did convince me that Lady Cora might keep herself occupied running the equivalent of a resort hotel, but we know Edith has absolutely nothing to do, and with Mary and Matthew living at Downton for whatever reason, Mary, who has been portrayed as such an intelligent and spirited woman, has no function in life either other than to await pregnancy. I wish Matthew had stood his ground and refused to turn over his second inheritance to support these parasites.</p>

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<p>Just various things I’ve picked up from studying and reading about the history of Britain and other societies from childhood onward…including a bio on Winston Churchill. </p>

<p>And I’m not from the UK. I’ve never set foot there yet…though I’d love to sometime.</p>

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<p>Re Julian Fellowes – As I have indicated earlier, go back and look at Gosford Park. It has a very, very different view of the English aristocracy – probably somewhere in between Branson’s and Mrs. Cawley’s. Very dark. There is some nostalgia to it, but it’s nostalgia noir: there is all that wealth, beauty, and privilege, and it’s wasted on a bunch of cretins. We tend to admire Lord Grantham’s heart, even when he is being clueless or bigoted. His equivalent in Gosford Park is a bitter, sadistic monster.</p>

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<p>I tape the show and then replay the bits I couldn’t understand with the Closed Caption activated. At least I replay some of them. There are too many to replay them all, so I focus on the ones that look like they are key to the development of the plot. And what really doesn’t help my listening comprehension is when the soap opera style “dramatic” background music comes up and drowns out some key words.</p>

<p>But even Closed Caption doesn’t readily solve all the problems, because they leave the text up only for as long as it takes the character to say it - which, if the dialogue is is proceeding very quickly, sometimes isn’t long enough to read it all. Also no thanks to the tiny font they use for the captions.</p>

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<p>Thanks coureur! I’ll try it.</p>

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<p>Woody, if I have the right scene, Anna was helping Mary get dressed and Matthew was asking about Bates. This is the conversation they had:</p>

<p>M: How’s Bates?
A: I’ve not seen him for a while, sir.
M: Oh? Why is that?
A: I’m not quite sure, sir. They’ve stopped all his visitors.
M: Has he given you a reason?
A: Well, he’s not written in quite some time now.
M: And you don’t know why?
A: No, but I’m certain I will, before too long. </p>

<p>Was that the one?</p>

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<p>did they ever explain American Grandmother Shirley McClaines character leaving? You woulld have thought she would have stayed around for Edith’s upcoming wedding.</p>

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<p>I think Bates will be cleared soon and come back to Downton and Thomas will be demoted. I try not to pick the show apart and just enjoy it.</p>

<p>Yes, aristocrat women often did not have any real function. But that will change soon.</p>

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<p>@Opera - The UK class system remains alive and kicking, very much so, even if it has evolved from the days depicted in Downton. The sort of lifestyle that is depicted in Downton doesn’t really exist any more because such estates really just aren’t economic any more. I wrote a post on this a while back (post #675 in this thread). Very few people would actually refer to themselves as ‘upper class’ nowadays. </p>

<p>However, the subtle (and not-so-subtle) distinctions between the middle and working classes abound, and it should be recognised that there are sub-strata within classes too, so this is something of an oversimplification. From which words you use (napkin is middle class, serviette is working class for instance) to your haircut (hairgel is working class, for instance), accent (regional accents are working class, neutral southern accents are middle class even if you come from the north), how you dress (e.g. ostentatious branding is working class / nouveau riche) to the breed of dog you keep (Labradors are middle class, Staffordshire bull terriers are working class), just about everything has a class connotation. </p>

<p>Social class, as it is perceived, often has very little to do with your income, assets or job. Many people who own houses like Downton Abbey now don’t have a pot to **** in. On the other hand, the ‘nouveau rich’ have a tendency towards conspicuous consumption and the need to let everyone else know that they now have money, hence the flashy cars, large labels on clothing and new this-that-and-the-other. Those with ‘old money’ will have a home which is comfortable but definitely a bit shabby in places, they’ve probably inherited the furniture, have some antique taxidermy somewhere, along with an elderly Labrador with poor bladder control and a battered car. </p>

<p>Talking about money remains vulgar, much as it was in the 1920s. If you come across someone who is actually wealthy and ‘old money’ (i.e. not working class with a bit of cash) then it will invariably take you months if not years to cotton onto just how wealthy they are. If they make sure that you know just how wealthy they are then you can guarantee that they are not towards the upper end of the social spectrum, no matter what their bank balance is. </p>

<p>If you’re seriously interested in these things, then this is quite an engaging read [Watching</a> the English: The Hidden Rules of English Behaviour: Kate Fox: 9781857885088: Amazon.com: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Watching-English-Hidden-Rules-Behaviour/dp/1857885082/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358806282&sr=1-1&keywords=watching+the+english]Watching”>http://www.amazon.com/Watching-English-Hidden-Rules-Behaviour/dp/1857885082/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358806282&sr=1-1&keywords=watching+the+english) </p>

<p>I think the university system is much more meritocratic than it is in the US, and indeed much more meritocratic than it once was in the UK. All students are entitled to funding from the government in the form of loans where the (low) repayments are linked to income after they graduate, and grants. Universities also top up the money for students from households with a low income with non-repayable bursaries. Tuition fees are always fully covered, but the amount given for living costs varies on the basis of household income, with any household with an income that roughly equates to two adults on minimum wage or one adult on the average wage getting the full amount, which is enough to live on without further parental support. This means that students can afford to go to any university in the country, from Oxford (world-leading) to Bolton (god-awful), regardless of family income and without having to worry about where will give financial aid. In addition, legacy admissions don’t exist and the idea that you could get your kid into a good university on the basis of a large donation is frankly laughable. </p>

<p>PS if you really want to hear Yorkshire accents, then I’m sure there are some suitable YouTube videos. Subtitled, ideally! </p>

<p>@gloworm I’m afraid football isn’t my thing at all. I’ve always lived within a few miles of a football stadium (Manchester Utd, currently), and I’ve never actually had any desire to go to the football.</p>

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<p>That was very interesting boomting! Thank you! I will check out the book and look for youtube videos. My husband travels a lot for business, and he’s been to London several times (actually a place outside called Alderschott, though I’m probably spelling it wrong) but I’m never able to go along. Someone has to take care of the children and pets, right? <em>sigh</em></p>

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<p>I had to laugh at the comments about needing subtitles. A close friend of mine loved the movie Billy Elliot but couldn’t understand much of the dialogue so watched it with her daughter with subtitles. She had no idea how much bad language was in the movie till she read it!!</p>

<p>Actually i am finding it harder every year to understand some of the accents on British TV when I go home. Back in my day all the presenters had marbles in the mouth accents. Now they have people from all over and, despite being such a small country, there are some very different regional accents. I find myself trying to read the presenters lips, just like I used to when I first moved to the US. (and actually when I first met my husband in the Uk)</p>

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<p>boomting,</p>

<p>Thanks again for that post. Since Robert has a Lab in 1920, would that have been uc or mc?</p>

<p>Also, if you ever read The Guardian, they recently had a story about St. Hugh’s suing Oxford over admitting students who have more financial means to pay than those less able to do so.</p>

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<p>I’m sure the accents don’t help, but in my case I think I miss a lot of words or sentences due to them being mumbled or whispered or buried under the “background” music. I have watched British TV shows on PBS for many years with little or no trouble with the accents, but Downton often has me replaying to catch what I’ve missed.</p>

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<p>Or you can play some old “All Creatures Great and Small” episodes and listen to the accents of the farmers and villiagers (but not the veterinarians).</p>

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<p>That’s what i would have guessed, but I’ve run into a few British kids here on CC who are interested in applying to US colleges who describe themselves as “upper class.” I have told them not to use that term when they get to the US. In the US pretty much everyone regards themselves as middle class no matter how rich or poor they might actually be.</p>

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<p>coureur,</p>

<p>I’m with you on the small size of captioning. You would think there would be an app to increase the size if one wants to do that.</p>

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<p>Any vaguely “nostalgic” feelings that I had previously felt toward the British Aristocracy (feelings that I acquired mostly as a result of a long Anthony Trollope addiction) were completely extinguished by reading the Patrick Melrose series of novels by Edward St. Aubyn. I read them recently, and the British upper classes come across as so depraved, disgusting and vapid that it has made Downton Abbey a little less fun for me than it otherwise would have been. The third book in the series, Some Hope, has a mordantly funny dinner scene involving Princess Margaret that just skewers its subject. (Most of the series is just painful, not funny, but extremely well written).</p>

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<p>Re: Churchill --</p>

<p>Folks may recall that Winston Churchill’s mother, Jennie Churchill, was an American heiress from a nouveau riche family that was snubbed by New York society. She went to Britain to find a husband and landed up married to the Duke of Marlborough. She was one of the early “Buccaneers” that Cora is supposedly modeled on.</p>

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<p>^^The Duke of Marlborough was her father-in-law, not her husband. Lord Randolph Churchill was the duke’s third son and thus didn’t get the title.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the correction, coureur!</p>

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<p>Thanks, Operadivamom but that wasn’t it. Matthew and Mary were in bed and Anna was opening curtains. Not important, I’m sure.</p>

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<p>Even though “No Popery!” riots were once commonplace in England, I still felt my admiration for Grantham decrease a notch when we saw him openly expressing anti-Catholicism in the previews for next week’s episode.</p>