<p>The prospect of a Crawley baby has raised a whole bunch of questions in my mind. First, does anyone know exactly what a “day nursery” is? What we’d call a play room? I’m also wondering what the typical child care arrangements would be for families like the Crawleys. A wet nurse? A governess from day one? (Somehow I don’t see Lady Mary changing dirty nappies, though I can imagine Sybil insisting on caring for her own child.) How much time each day would a mother actually spend with her child? It’s hard to imagine a toddler racing around the formal rooms of Downton or Lord Grantham bouncing a baby on his knee while nursring a cognac, so would the child be confined to the “day nursery” where the parents and grandparents would visit over the course of the day? I assume that at a fairly young age a male would be whisked off to boarding school, while a female would be educated at home.</p>
<p>I think the day nursery is the playroom where the children stayed during the day with the nanny and ate their meals. The night nursery was where the children slept, next to nanny’s room. There would be a nanny and a nursemaid, at least. I doubt if Lady Mary would have changed diapers. Perhaps the more involved mothers would be in the nursery more often during the day. There was a tradition of the well-dressed, well-behaved children with their nanny visiting the parents in the main part of the house in the evening to say good night. </p>
<p>The governess came later, I think, for school-aged children. She would stay to educate the girls, and yes, the boys would go to boarding school. I wish Downton would continue long enough so we could see the next generation as children.</p>
<p>I happen to be reading a series of books (The Tears series by Paul Henke) that is a rags to riches family saga set in the UK. In the book, the oldest S and his wife just had a baby boy and almost immdiately discussions ensued as to which elite British school for boys he would attend to make the most “contacts” for later on in life. According to the book, back then (the 20’s) upper class boys could go off to boarding school as young as Kindergarten age.</p>
<p>“discussions ensued as to which elite British school for boys he would attend to make the most “contacts” for later on in life”</p>
<p>Sounds a lot like present-day Manhattan :)</p>
<p>[Downton</a> Abbey Facebook Recap Season 3 Episode 3 | Happy Place](<a href=“http://www.happyplace.com/20707/downton-abbey-facebook-recap-season-3-episode-3]Downton”>http://www.happyplace.com/20707/downton-abbey-facebook-recap-season-3-episode-3)
Another Facebook recap :)</p>
<p>I’m not quite sure what year it is in Downton. Anybody know?</p>
<p>The Easter Rising happened in 1916. At most 2,000 people participated in it. The Brits arrested about 5,000 for participating in it. About 65 rebels were killed in action; about 250 civilians were killed by the Brits. They also pretty much leveled Dublin. Gun boats came up the River Liffey and sent canon balls into the buildings.</p>
<p>However, twice a day hostilities ceased so the keeper could feed the swans in Phoenix Park. The Park was “manned” by the equivalent of boy scouts, lead by Countess Markewicz (spelling?)</p>
<p>The Rising itself was NOT supported by the vast majority of Irish. It was more than a bit of a comic opera. There were two different groups. One, lead by James Connolly, was socialist and so a socialist Republic was proclaimed. However, one of the other leaders wanted a Catholic kingdom headed up by a German Catholic prince. </p>
<p>The Germans tried to help. Roger Casement, a Protestant, went to Berlin and negotiated with the German Kaiser to get arms. They were smuggled into Ireland in a fake fishing trawler, but the Brits found out and intercepted the arms. Casement was executed for treason. </p>
<p>It was really the excessive force of the Brits that convinced the majority of Irish to support independence. </p>
<p>But again, most Dubliners did NOT join in. If you’ve ever seen Sean O’Casey’s play “Juno and the Paycock” it’s about how little interest most Dubliners took. Mostly the poor saw it as an opportunity to loot. When the play was first performed, the audience was infuriated and stormed the stage. </p>
<p>Here’s a link to a youtube video. Views of the destruction start a little after the 3 minute mark. [The</a> Easter Rising 1916 (real footage of aftermath) - YouTube](<a href=“The Easter Rising 1916 (real footage of aftermath) - YouTube”>The Easter Rising 1916 (real footage of aftermath) - YouTube)</p>
<p>15 leaders were executed. One was John McBride, who was really executed because of what he’d done against the Brits in South Africa. He was the husband of Maude Gonne, whom Yeats loved. (Their son Sean founded Amnesty International.)</p>
<p>Two leaders were not executed.(Actually 4 weren’t but the other 2 weren’t really leaders.) One was the Countess. The other was Eamon de Valera, who was an American citizen, born in New York. The Brits were embroiled in WWI. They badly wanted the US to get involved and they feared that executing an American might interfere with that plan. </p>
<p>Hostilities broke out again in 1919. de Valera was granted amnesty and he negotiated a peace treaty in late 1921. The Republic began a year later. (So, I think Downton Abbey must be taking place between 1919 and 1921?)</p>
<p>However, the treaty left Northern Ireland part of the UK and many Republicans didn’t accept that. Ireland was plunged into a Civil War.</p>
<p>Yes, in answer to someone’s question, Parnell was Protestant. BTW, like Churchill, he had an American mother. He was named for his grandfather, American admiral Charles Stewart.</p>
<p>Graeme Greene converted to Catholicism.</p>
<p>So if I understand the term “day nursery” correctly, it’s where the children play during the day. Which means my TV room where the kids used to play Carmen Sandiego and Madden on Xbox would be called the “day nursery”. It sounds better that way.</p>
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<p>In the last episode Lord Grantham mentioned that Tennessee had just ratified the 19th amendment giving women the right to vote in the US. That would make it 1920.</p>
<p>Thanks! Yep, Tennessee ratified it on August 24, 1920, so there’s less than a year to go before there’s a cease fire in Ireland.</p>
<p>In the film ‘Michael Collins,’ starring Liam Neeson, the Eamon de Valera character indicates that de Valera accepted the partition because he felt that the six counties would be re-united with the rest of Ireland eventually. Don’t know if that’s historically accurate, but the ruling class like the fictional Lord Grantham have held on since that time and likely won’t ever let Northern Ireland go.</p>
<p>At the beginning of this season, the numbers “1920” appeared on the screen. That was also a clue about what year is being portrayed in the current season. Also, their clothes. And the fact that the Spanish Influenza epidemic and the end of WWI happened about a year before the current action began (and we’re several months, at least, later now).</p>
<p>Re #950 Frankly, I think there have been times when the Brits would have been quite happy to let Northern Ireland go. It’s Protestant Northern Irish who fear being part of the Republic–or I should say some elements of them. Ian Paisley is not someone the Brits find it easy to support. </p>
<p>Until fairly recent times Protestants in the North enjoyed real economic benefits. It was a bit like the Jim Crow American South, in some ways. Catholics and Protestants lived in separate neighborhoods and if a Catholic went for a job, especially a government job, and wrote down his address, he would not get the job. It would go to a Protestant–often one with far worse qualifications.</p>
<p>At the time of the partition, Brits hoped that BOTH parts of Ireland would remain part of the UK. At the time they agreed to partition, that was the plan and yes, there was to be “eventual” reunification. But as soon as they got out from under, “Southern Ireland” proclaimed itself a Republic.</p>
<p>Fascinating video, jonri, thanks so much for that and all the other background info. Given their familiarity with the historical setting, the British watching Downton Abbey are really coming at it with a very different–and more rich–perspective than we Americans. For example, if I hadn’t been woefully ignorant of Irish history, I would have realized that the Bransons would be able to return to Ireland in a few years, and that Tom isn’t hopelessly trapped at Downton for the long term. And after seeing the violence of the Easter Rebellion and the resulting destruction in Dublin, I better understand why Lord Grantham was so dismayed at Sybil’s living there.</p>
<p>I think MommaH is right, that aspects of Downton have a resonance here in the UK that might not carry across the Atlantic. Eg the government is now holding the second reading of the Succession to the Crown Bill which, among other things, repeals
this statute from the 1701 Act of Settlement, that all and every Person and Persons that then were or afterwards should be reconciled to or shall hold communion with the See or Church of Rome or should profess the Popish Religion or marry a Papist should be excluded and are by that Act made for ever incapable to inherit possess or enjoy the Crown and Government of this Realm."</p>
<p>It is on this specific point that Prince Charles has cautioned the Bill requires more fine tuning. Nobody has any argument against the Bill’s main reform which allows a first born daughter to ascend the Throne. And some of the aristocracy are seizing on that to call for a reform of inheritance laws that lead to the sort of situation posted earlier, the Peer with all those daughters whose estate will go to the nephew.</p>
<p>Sorry! Got my alphabet confused. MommaJ , not H!</p>
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<p>I also know very little about English politics. Samuck, do you mean here that Prince Charles is in favor of, or opposed to, allowing a Catholic crown? Is there a general anti-Catholic sentiment in England? Is there a fear of returning to a state tied to the Catholic Church, as in the days before Henry VIII? ( I learned a few things watching The Tudors, which btw, I liked very much. If it weren’t for all the gratuitous nudity, I would have had my children watch.) Since there is an official Church of England, it isn’t exactly “separation of church and state” as we have in the US, so it seems like it’s just a problem with the Catholic religion, or maybe the heirarchy? </p>
<p>Thanks for your answers - I really appreciate this dialgue and everything you all have been teaching us!</p>
<p>Great thread! Thanks for the history lesson! I am enjoying Downton each Sunday night. Love all the insights as well! I will check back in after each episode now.</p>
<p>Regarding the plight of aristocrat daughters in Britain; one of the funniest lines spoken by Maggie Smith was, “In England, there is no such thing as an heiress with a brother.”</p>
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<p>True, but the Rising was the spark which ultimately brought about an armed revolt which eventually brought about Irish independence…except for Northern Ireland. Especially considering the British grossly overreacted by bringing out artillery cannons meant for combat against enemy troops to suppress the uprising. </p>
<p>Also, not all revolutions…including our own American Revolution were supported by the vast majority of the population. Many American historians have estimated that only about a third of American Colonials were ardent revolutionaries while around another third were on the fence and the last third were ardent Pro-British Tories. A reason why after the American Revolution, there were many Tories such as Ben Franklin’s beloved son William who ended up migrating to Canada and Britain.</p>
<p>In answer to question in #956, Charles apparently is afraid the changes to the rules of succession are being rushed in view of the royal pregnancy without due deliberation of constitutional law. The monarch is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. The proposed change would allow his grandchild to marry a Catholic. Charles’ concern centres on
the offspring of such a marriage. If the heir were raised a Catholic, this could lead to a situation in which an heir to the throne is brought up as a Catholic and is therefore ineligible to become sovereign without renouncing his or her faith.</p>