First you have to establish whether the MD and the spouse are going to have the same last name.
Then you have to establish whether the spouse has a PhD. Very few people with PhDs go around calling themselves “Dr” outside of a professional environment where it makes a difference (and not all do). Nevertheless, if their spouse is being addressed as Dr it can be annoying not to be. I had a boss and friend in days of yore who had a PhD, as did her husband. She didn’t use the title under normal circumstances, but when they received invitations from his professional sphere that addressed them as Dr. and Mrs. X, it rightfully annoyed her.
I’d go with 2 lines on an envelope:
Dr. Name Jones
Mr/Ms Name Smith
Dr. Name Jones
Mr/Ms Name Jones
depending on whether they are going to have the same last name. Do Not Assume. And always acknowledge the name and personhood of the spouse. I’d use their first names inside.
To a feminist woman who is keeping her own name, it is not cute or heartwarming to receive a card addressed to Mr. and Mrs. John Jones. Trust me.
Physician here- in my '60’s married to another physician and I kept my name. As a woman physician I have always hated it when people acknowledged his title but not mine. I do not care what those etiquette books may say- they are so out of date, back to the dinosaur ages when women only had status because of a husband (hokum there is differentiation of marital status for women but not men…). I am especially unforgiving in medical social situations. We typically do not use our Dr. title for most things unrelated to medicine. Some solicitations to Dr. me and Mr. him I have given up on.
To avoid problems, and knowing any women can get married but it takes a lot more effort to earn the MD/PhD/DDS/DMD… degree I skip titles. So many friends with degrees- not fair to acknowledge the MDs but not the PhDs… I will address holiday cards to the X (his name) family instead of writing out both names. Ours add up to 20 letters so it can become a long line! And cards are only sent to people you know well enough that titles aren’t needed.
I’m sure the people in question are thrilled with both the degree and their marriage. I had never heard of using both at the same time.
Since so many women do not change their names I have sent relatives the wedding card with both names on it, no titles of Mr./Mrs. Sometime after the wedding I have asked the woman if she changed her name. For my brother’s son’s wives with the same long last name I can’t blame them for not switching. And it’s close to the end of the alphabet.
When addressed in person I am NOT Mrs. Him, nor am I Mrs. her. I can be Ms. her if no one else around is being addressed as Dr. and it’s not a medical setting. I have often told people it’s Dr. X, or first name to keep it short and simple (and pronounceable).
Like the poster above I am vehement about this. H doesn’t understand. Probably because as a man he has always gotten the prestige while we women have not.
btw- I have noticed that with so many women now in medical schools and recent grads they seem to have no understanding of what we went through back when. It is because of us they have so much more acceptance and far less demeaning comments/attitudes/actions. But that’s an entirely different soapbox.
Addenda. When son was growing up I accepted the politeness of his friends who addressed me as Mrs. him- son’s last name (hyphenating is bad in my view- especially when 20 letters plus the hyphen are involved- it would be too revealing to mention the combination of our first syllables even if it becomes a cute story involving otherwise politically incorrect phrasing). No reason to emphasize the Dr. bit, especially since I had retired (another story there- see above last paragraph). I have generally used the informal version of my first name plus last name when dealing with things- my signature is my name so people needed to know that son’s mom had a different name. Likewise with other dealings. Surprised the wrong last name was used for godson’s baptism decades ago- only one person had to be Catholic and sister in law never got it (fell from graces for another story there reasons).
The good news is that is today’s culture things are not as rigid- more informal. But- if you use any of the formalities you need to so correctly and not treat the woman as the H’s possession. Those old etiquette ladies never dealt with modern realities.
And to contradict what I earlier said, I do remember the people who called us Mr and Mrs SpouseFirstName SpouseLastName. And I still have a bitter taste in my mouth about it.
Even my mom who has my dad’s last name doesn’t allow people to call her Mrs. DadsFirstName
My in-laws were both doctors - they met in medical school in 1948 or so. They were Dr. X and Dr. Y, since my MIL kept her maiden name for most purposes. Ahead of her time! But she wasn’t allowed to practice pediatrics since her husband was an OB/gyn. ??? Bizarre. She switched to psychiatry.
Well, I think we should ask @Pizzagirl to weigh in, since she is a professional woman married to an MD who took his name. I know there are others here, but I can’t think who.
Personally, I cannot imagine a present that I would want engraved in that way.
If it is some kind of momento, such a silver or crystal box, I would just put:
My father thought it was quite amusing when they were in (African country to which he was the ambassador) when they got a Christmas card from one of her students (or their parents) addressed to Mr. and Mrs. Her first name their last name. Of course most people addressed everything to Ambassador and Mrs. His first name their last name. Nice turn about.
@LanaHere if you are engraving names, you really should ask them what they prefer. I know it would irk me no end if it was wrong. Honestly for something like that, I’d prefer Congratulations John and Lisa. No titles. Or no engraving at all.
If you’re getting something engraved, find out what she wants to be called.
I kept my birth name when I married, but even if I had taken Mr. Fang’s name I would not have wanted to be called Mrs. HisName, and I would have been greatly annoyed if someone had given me something engraved with
“Congratulations Mr. HisFirst HisLast and Mrs. MyFirst Hislast.” The title I have chosen is Ms. I don’t ever want to be called Mrs. Anything.
I promise they will not be offended or bothered if you just ask what they prefer.
I don’t understand for the life of me why people are so reluctant to ask couples what they prefer. It would save the giver from worrying and the receivers from getting something they don’t like.
H and I are physicians. I would go with first and last names of each. I cannot tell you how it irritated me to be called Dr and Mrs most of my life, even by family who went to my med school graduation. We have the same last name.
“To avoid problems, and knowing any women can get married but it takes a lot more effort to earn the MD/PhD/DDS/DMD… degree I skip titles. So many friends with degrees- not fair to acknowledge the MDs but not the PhDs… I will address holiday cards to the X (his name) family instead of writing out both names”
I have a PhD but when I get mail at home with that appended to my name I assume it’s probably my old grad school university writing to ask me for another donation.
Added academic or professional degrees to personal cards or invitations always struck me as a little odd. For a wedding I would not expect to be acting in my capacity as a scientist, so I would not expect to be addressed as one.
For your rngraving, I would absolutely use first names with no titles:
Lisa and John Smith
Under traditional etiquette rules, when first names of a opp-sex couple are used without titles, the woman’s name comes first. Not sure it matters, but that’s the traditional rule. (The rule would arise when, say, the couple was sending out a holiday card or a birth announcement or something.)
I did not take my husband’s last name and we hyphenated the kids with two one syllable last names. It worked well. Daughter shed it when she married and got a more difficult last name, in my opinion. Our family has received all sorts of mail/invitations to various combinations of all the names. My husband is a PhD but never uses Dr.- although he did when he was teaching.
Additionally, under traditional naming rules, Mrs. Lisa Smith is divorced. If a man marries and his wife takes his name, they then divorce, and he remarries another woman who takes his name, then traditional etiquette says ex wife is Mrs. Lisa Smith and new wife is Mrs John Smith.
All too confusing, eh? You can google and pick what suits you, I guess.
For years, I kept my birth name. I never minded being called Dr and Mrs John Doe, considered it somewhat a traditional title. I did, however, mind (ok, just a smidge, a small one) having correspondence solely to me addressed Mrs John Doe. That made me seem somewhat anonymous.
Yes, about the time I was married, Mrs Jane Doe (husband’s surname) was one of several indicators of divorce.
Seems we can’t win. So do what you want. But, I think, don’t engrave anything til you’re sure they will like the format.
DH is a dentist. He goes by Dr. in his professional life, but isn’t insulted if he’s referred to as Mr in his private life, even by friends and family when they address cards, invitations, etc. His mother, OTOH, was incredibly insulted if she heard someone refer to him as Mr.
I have a PhD, and only used Dr. professionally, otherwise it’s Ms. I don’t really care about titles.
I have a big problem with being referred to as Mrs. DHFirstName DHLastName. My MIL was the only one I knew who routinely addressed things to me that way.
Echoing those who say ask the couple, especially if you are close enough to have known and interacted with them for several years.
This really depends on the individual concerned or the subculture of the social group/family one is a part of. Some would feel the same as you.
Others would feel an academic/professional degree is an earned accomplishment which should be acknowledged in all settings and failure to do so a sign of serious disrespect.
But we have always addressed him as “Dr.”, never called him by his first name
or last name alone. Always Dr. Smith… so I was thinking:
Dr. John Smith and Mrs Lisa Smith?
That doesn’t sound right to me. Sounds like she’s getting left out because if there
is a Mrs, shouldn’t there be a Mr. ?
lols
If you agree please reply YES… lols.
If not, please be clear on your suggestion. I’m lost. lols.
For something engraved, I would put “Lisa and John Smith” even if you call him doctor.
Unless it is some professional plaque of some sort, I can’t see including the Dr. and Mrs. on it. A wedding gift represents a gift for a social event - a wedding.
