<p>D is on her way home from a two day stay at a fine LAC. She liked the classes, loved the coaches, thought the dorms were nice–but was shocked by the level of drinking on campus.</p>
<p>My sense is that the level of drinking that she saw/heard about is the norm for colleges these days. I don’t know what to tell her. Apply to the school anyway because all her likely schools are bad? </p>
<p>Is there anyway to get an objective handle on how hard-core the drinking scene is at different LACs?</p>
<p>What LAC is this? I don’t think there is a general rule about LACs and drinking. Kids probably drink too much at all schools - LACs and Us. I know of some LACs where some kids feel the drinking scene is overdone.</p>
<p>its either predominantly alcohol or pot as drugs of choice as far as I can tell
Pot at schools where greek/big time sport influence is negligible
Alcohol more so at schools which are rural/ isolated from surrounding area.
Yes these are gross assumptions- but just my general observation.
Many high school kids are shocked by the amount of substance use/ “adult” behavior on campuses
This is good-
on the other hand- there is some on every campus and another thing to keep in mind- college students may up their behavior when prospies visit just because they can :eek:</p>
<p>There are a number of threads on this important issue- do a search on drinking or search some of interesteddad’s posts. The drinking issue has been a big part of the athletic culture (which Williams has, according to him) v. the LACs which abandoned football like Swarthmore, thereby getting rid of some of the dumb jocks which lead everyone astray. Drinking is a regular activity at almost all colleges (excepting some of the strong religious-based schools like BYU, perhaps) and I would not discourage your daughter from applying. She will settle into a social group which suits her. Many schools have substance-free dorms, too.</p>
<p>The breadth and depth of the drinking scene varies considerably depending on the LAC, so it is difficult to generalize. </p>
<p>At the low end, there are LACs where only 30% of the students have had 5 drinks on single occasion in the two weeks prior to the survey. At the high end, that number probably doubles up to around the 60% range. The national average is 44%.</p>
<p>Sometimes, you can get the actual survey data. In other cases, searches of the college newspaper going back five or six years can provide useful indicators – the number of alcohol poisoning hospitalizations, closing campus health centers due to alcohol-related liability concerns, etc.</p>
<p>Some schools that I know to be at the low end of the statistical measures are the Claremont Colleges (as a group), most of the womens colleges, Swarthmore, and Earlham (there are others). It is true that there is drinking at virtually all colleges. It is not true that the drinking scene is the same at all colleges. I, personally, feel that it is an issue worth investigating because a heavy drinking scene has a definite negative impact on non-drinkers and moderate drinkers, especially at an LAC where it can be difficult to escape.</p>
<p>mini also, if you search his posts, frequently provides data on drinking at different campuses. The data are out there showing % regularly binging/% abstaining and thus allowing you to figure % “moderately” drinking. He makes the point (hoping I don’t misquote here) that - yes - you will find drinking at almost all LAC’s. BUT, if you delve into the data on % engaging in binge drinking you will find sufficient differences to make it easier on some campuses/harder on others to find kindred spirits.</p>
<p>I just started checking the newspapers. Interested Dad, you mentioned Swarthmore as being statistically low – where can I find these data? </p>
<p>In terms of which LAC D visited, it probably isn’t relevant but it was Grinnell. In terms of popular indicators of high drinking behavior, Grinnell shouldn’t be very high. No greeks. Not in Northeast. Athletics are important, but not Williams-level. Kind of a nerdy, Swarthmore like reputation. It is isolated, though.</p>
<p>"D is on her way home from a two day stay at a fine LAC. She liked the classes, loved the coaches, thought the dorms were nice–but was shocked by the level of drinking on campus.</p>
<p>Mine gave the cold shoulder to the school where she was recruited, and where she thought the drinking on campus was quite over the top, and where the school itself reports, according to the Provost, that drinking is the most prominent feature of social life". She applied, got in, and put it to the bottom of her list. At another school, she didn’t bother to apply. She found five other schools, equally desirable for what she hoped to do, four of them within 100 miles of the same school, where that wasn’t the case, and chose one of them accordingly. Now, mind you, the negative impact of drinking was not the only factor; there were positive aspects for her- academic and otherwise - at the school she chose that just didn’t exist at the heavy drinking school, as well.</p>
<p>There is drinking at virtually every school, and the differences among those are quite wide.</p>
<p>“I don’t know what to tell her. Apply to the school anyway because all her likely schools are bad?”</p>
<p>Tell her to go with her gut. She has to spend four years there. With so many wonderful, wonderful schools out there, it would be pretty odd to end up at a school to which she already had such a negative, visceral response. But, if on reflection, she decides she wants to deal with it, that ultimately has to be her decision. Don’t minimize what she saw: there is no reason to believe that it would be different from what she experienced if she chooses to attend. On the other hand, make it clear that it is her choice, as she is the one that will have to live with it.</p>
<p>“Is there anyway to get an objective handle on how hard-core the drinking scene is at different LACs?”</p>
<p>Yes, and no. Some of them report their heavy drinking rates. For some of them, you can read about the scene on-line in their college newspapers. For some, you can actually find the emergency hospitalization rates. Head-to-head, no, it is rare you can find objective comparisons. But the Wechsler studies out of the Harvard School of Public Health, regardless of how you feel about the surveys themselves, use the same survey at every school, so the comparisons are about as objective as you can get.</p>
<p>I agree that drinking is far too prevalent at colleges, of all sizes. I do think, though, that at almost every college there is a group of people who prefer not to drink, or drink in a very limited way, and still have active social lives. Rather than ruling out a school (such as Williams) because it has a drinking scene, I would encourage an applicant to try to find out what other social alternatives exist at the school or schools in question.</p>
<p>Californian- if this school really is at the top of her list as the process continues, would it be possible to do another visit? A young man I know came away from his first overnight at Princeton with an extremely negative impression. It had previously been at the top of his list. It wasn’t only the drinking. His host wasn’t very hospitable and he just didn’t get a good feeling from the kids. However, after all the acceptances were in, he went to an admitted students weekend and had a wonderful time and formed a totally different impression. He is now a happy freshman at Princeton.</p>
<p>Drinking is very prevalent at the secluded colleges where there is not much going on around the community and life is mainly on campus. However I do know that at ,at least Pomona the drinking is worst freshman year, tapers a little sophomore year and is not as thrilling junior or senior year when kids are too busy and serious and the initial attraction has wanned. There are students at all these schools who do not drink or drink only occassionally. It depends who students have their overnight with what impression they come out with.</p>
<p>Yes! The host makes a big different in a prospies visit experience - and if the host was a heavy partier, your DD might feel like that is the experience of all the students at the school. I would suggest that she apply, then visit again if accepted w/ adequate financial aid, etc. A second visit can be a totally different experience. (and Grinnell is a truly fine school in so many ways!)</p>
<p>In the Northeast, 80% or more students report having consumed alcohol at least once in the last month. Most, however, have consumed moderately, such that their BAL is not in the intoxicated range. The majority of students (70% or more --depending on the college) do not drink more than 2 times per week. Rather, the vast majority drink 0, 1, or 2 times.
Most important is that students perceive drinking frequency and amounts to be even more prevalent than they are. This tends to result in their drinking more.</p>
<p>A couple of people on this board have kids at Grinnell right now–Robyrm, for example. My daughter graduated in 2002, and didn’t find drinking to be dominant. She had a serious set of friends. But she did do some drinking for sure. </p>
<p>I also agree with MomofWildChild that if she’s been pretty interested in the school she might want to give it a second chance. When my daughter first visited Grinnell she was turned off because she didn’t like her host. She didn’t really meet anyone else. But she decided to attend because she enjoyed the classes she had visited. She loved her four years there, and we were always impressed by the school on our visits.</p>
<p>To answer the question about Swarthmore:</p>
<p>The best published data I’ve seen came from a 2000 Phoenix article based on a campus-wide spring semester COFHE survey:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/phoenix/2000/2000-01-20/news/alcohol.html[/url]”>http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/phoenix/2000/2000-01-20/news/alcohol.html</a></p>
<p>There was relevant data in two areas:</p>
<p>First was the number of times in the prior year that students in each class drank alcohol. The averages were:</p>
<p>Freshmen: 14.1 times
Sophmore: 25.3 times
Junior: 25.2 times
Senior: 30.6 times</p>
<p>They also asked how many students in each class had not drank alcohol in the prior 12 months:</p>
<p>Freshmen: 30%
Sophmore: 16%
Junior: 16%
Senior: 11%</p>
<p>And, they asked how many students had not consumed alcohol in the prior 30 days:</p>
<p>Freshmen: 43%
Sophmore: 35%
Junior: 30%
Senior: 22%</p>
<p>In addition, I have gotten some information on alcohol hospitalizations from the head of the health center. In the 2003-04 academic year, there were 0. In the 2004-05 academic year, I believe there were 3 (all associated with the big Halloween party – they got through this year’s Halloween party with none, knock on wood). I was told by the head of the health center that they average about 1 per year and that is consistent with the incidents I’ve seen described in The Phoenix archives. That’s a very low number. </p>
<p>Nearby Haverford (which is not a chart-topper party school by any means) had eight hospitalizations from their Halloween party in 2000. I’ve seen reports that double-digit hospitalizations are not uncommon at some schools. I think if I were doing it again, that is a number I would attempt to get from the Dean’s office or the health center at each school. If a school doesn’t answer the question, I’d move on.</p>
<p>Swarthmore runs a 24/7 on-campus health center where they keep students over night for intoxication. The dorm RAs are trained to walk people to the health center if they are in any doubt. They keep them at the health center as long as they are alert and can walk on their own. If they cannot walk, they send them to the hospital. The head of the health center told me that they average about one per weekend “sleeping it off” under observation in the health center. This is a low number as well.</p>
<p>The other source of hard data are the federal crime reporting statistics. Colleges are required by federal law to report all alcohol and drug related arrests and disciplinary referrals. It’s not possible to make direct school to school comparisons because the opportunity for interaction with the local police varies from place to place. However, it is possible to compare similar college towns. Swarthmore had 8 total liquor law arrests and 0 drug law arrests during the three-year period from 2002 to 2004. In part, this reflects the fact that virtually all drinking at Swarthmore takes place on campus. The bulk of the liquor law arrests each year again occur in relation to the annual Halloween party where students going to and from the party walk right through the center of town to an off-campus dorm. The remainder of the arrests on campus, where the local police station cruisers near the major party venues on Saturday nights. These stats are available for all colleges at the IPEDS federal reporting website or by searching for “Clery Crime Statisitics” on college websites.</p>
<p>I can’t give you a published source for the binge drinking rate at Swarthmore, although I’ve been told it is in the neighborhood of 30%. There should be an updated number available soon based on a recent campus-wide 31-college COFHE survey administration. I don’t know if the college has received tabulated data from the survey company yet. I’m expecting a news article or two when it becomes available. I believe that you could probably get a firm number from Bob Gross, the Dean of Students, or Myrt Westphal, Dean of Student Life.</p>
<hr>
<p>At college websites, try searching for “binge drinking” or “alcohol poisoning” or “alcohol” and “hospital”. For example, a quick search for Grinnell popped up this April 2004 campus newspaper:</p>
<p><a href=“http://web.grinnell.edu/sandb/archives/volume_120/number_24/news/pdf.pdf[/url]”>http://web.grinnell.edu/sandb/archives/volume_120/number_24/news/pdf.pdf</a></p>
<p>The article reported binge drinking rates of 39% in surveys from 2003 and 2004 – a rate below the national average. They reported 13 arrests or citations in 2003 and 14 through April of 2004. </p>
<p>They reported 15 hospitalizations in 2002-03 and 4 through April of 2004-04. An additional search cites 6 in 2001-02 and 21 in 2000-01. Those numbers seem kind of high. They could relate to the fact that Grinnell’s health center is only open from 8:00 am to 5:00 pm Monday thru Friday, so the only real option for alcohol emergencies (or potential emergencies) is a trip to the hospital.</p>
<p>idad is right – searching on “binge drinking” on college websites is a quick way of finding information (particularly if the school has an online newspaper with archives). On one website I found the following “Letter to Parents” of incoming freshmen:</p>
<p>
On the one hand, I’m glad to see the administration taking the issue seriously. On the other hand, it does send a message (to me at least) that the school is concerned about the level of drinking on its campus. For what it’s worth, here’s a letter to the editor from that same college – a student bemoaning the administration crackdown on drinking:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Please consider also that alcohol is only one issue. Drug abuse is also a serious problem on many campuses. Getting reliable data is all but impossible. The IPEDS webpage does list crime statistics for each school, including alcohol and drug arrests. This may not provide very useful information. In many isolated college towns, the local community makes there living off students and the college. Alcohol and to some extent drug abuse may be tolerated and there may be few arrests. Reputation, campus visits and word of mouth may provide some indications, but that may not be truly representative. Other sources of information are the college guides and if you prowl around enough on the internet you will find rankings for drug/alcohol use. After a while you can get a fairly accurate assessment.</p>
<p>Although alcohol and drugs are on all campuses, we found a large differences in how central those were to the campus culture.</p>
<p>Was your D there over Halloween? As far as I can tell, Halloween parties inspire some pretty astonishing alcohol intake. The actual “normal” intake might be less, depending on the campus.</p>
<p>I think the Halloween parties get out of hand because they are usually the first big “all-campus” parties of the year. There’s a lot of build-up with the whole costume thing. And, a lot of first-year students looking to maximize their “enjoyment” of a big campus event after settling in as college students.</p>
<p>S is at Grinnell and though the drinking seen is quite prevalent seems to be generally managing a balance. He did not drink at all for most of his freshman year but ultimatley found being around drunk people was just too boring if you didn’t drink. He seems to be balancing it pretty well, except for one extreme exception. I agree that visits can be influenced a great deal by the hosts. D visited Kenyon at about this time in the fall and didn’t think much of it. Found the hosts aloof and the classes less than inspiring, why they had her sit in on a Spanish class I’ll never know. Went back for the accepted students weekend and fell in love with it. She’s now the happiest freshman I know. Kenyon seems to have a bigger drinking scene than Grinnell but I don’t think she’s drinking too much. She told me she’d tried half a beer back in September. I expect she’s drinking some but I think there is a range of consumption at all schools. One thing is that once the first set of grades come in most of those who have been drinking excessively either get some balance or end up leaving. You can’t drink all the time at the LAC’s and be successful academically unless you’re a genius.</p>