Drive to perfect GPA - innate or learned?

Parents Forum
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<p>I’m always amazed at the slew of college applicants year after year with perfect or near perfect cumulative GPA. It is almost mind-boggling to me that these kids have been perfect or near perfect consistently in everything that counted toward their grades through at least three years of high school. Sure they are plenty smart, but what are the qualities that separate them from other smart or even smarter peers who failed to come anywhere near this level of academic excellence? Can these qualities be cultivated, or are they innate, or a combination of both? If it is a combination, which qualities are innate and which qualities can be learned? Is the sustained drive to succeed academically year-after-year inborn or a result of years of discipline and training? For those qualities that can be acquired, how early must they be cultivated? Did they acquire good habits and discipline from watching and following their parents? Was there a turning point in their lives that started it all? </p>

<p>Please share your thoughts, especially if you have such a kid (or kids) or know one very well. What would you say the top one or two qualities are and are these qualities inborn or acquired? Please assume that excellence is achieved in a rigorous curriculum and not a result of a wild GPA inflation.</p>

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<p>I have a kid like that. I believe it was with her from birth. It is not something any of my other children have, so for our family, the theory of if being “learned” would be flawed. She accepts nothing less than perfection from herself, and anything short of it, in HER eyes is a failure. It doesn’t matter what it takes. Stay up all night…that’s fine. She does what she has to do in order to achieve what she feels she needs to achieve. It can become a character flaw and I spend time reigning her in. She can literally be on the verge of an anexity attack when her hard work does not pay the rewards she feels it should. Since college and the reality of being put with equal minded peers, she has scaled down a bit.</p>

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<p>Depends on the kid. </p>

<p>I have it and have had it since birth. My parents barely graduated from high school. My sister graduated late and is kinda sorta (but not really) in college. My parents encouraged me to be laid back and that grades weren’t everything… so the exact opposite of the drive to get a perfect GPA. In my own experience, I am NOT driven to the grade. I am intensely curious about EVERYTHING and want to learn EVERYTHING. I have been that way since I was little. It’s why I’m graduating with 2 degrees (BA and BS) and a few other things… the side effect is that I usually end up with a near-perfect GPA.</p>

<p>I also have friends that have it but it is entirely parent-driven. My boyfriend had it in high school (graduated with a perfect GPA and was Val of his class). In college, without that push, he didn’t push himself the first few years. It’s not in his nature to WANT that perfect 4.0.</p>

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<p>I know two kids at ds’s school when i think of overachievement. One, obviously, is simply brilliant. He comes from highly educated stock – dad is a professor, mom went to Harvard. He tends to stick to academic things even with his ECs, like SciO or Quiz Bowl. The other kid looks to me to be driven primarily by his mother. I mean, at this point, he’s certainly internalized her crazy ambition, but she seems to be the driving force behind his “achievement.” This kid is more well-rounded, but he also throws up before he takes the field at sporting events. I feel so sorry for him.</p>

<p>My ds wasn’t born crazy-genious like the first kid, and I have no desire to make him an overachiever like the second kid. I suppose we’re a “good enough” kind of family.</p>

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<p>I was the classic perfect GPA kid myself - it was not due to parental pressure at all, but a code that I imposed on myself. In hindsight, and after a lot of therapy, I realized that I was using getting perfect grades (and being pretty much perfect at anything I tried my hand at - otherwise I wouldn’t do it) as a means of dealing with some personal demons. I call it the “golden girl” syndrome. I got a B- my freshman year in a class relating to my major and fell apart completely. It’s not really such a great way to be; it’s great to be smart and it’s great to work hard, but it’s not great to make the grades the be-all-end-all, and I really worked hard to teach my kids that. How that manifests itself is - we don’t really ask about their grades at all, and if they tell us, it’s “oh, great, that’s nice” but nothing to dwell on - because in the long run, it really doesn’t matter.</p>

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<p>I think there are the really, really smart kids who get A’s without even trying and this group tends to be lacking in organizational skills and they are shocked when then get an A- or B. In my experience this group does not fall under the umbrella of Type A overachievers.</p>

<p>Then there are the really smarts kids in PaperChase’s post. I think they are smart and driven from birth, but somewhere along the line they learned the skills of time management and organization. These kids are noted by teachers in the early grade school years. They are the little girls who prided themselves in coloring within the lines and keeping their crayon box neat and tidy. (and whatever the boy version is)</p>

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<p>One of my kids always had a tendency to be a little like that but has gotten extremely driven; I think for two reasons. The first is that she is extremely competitive and I believe has decided that she wan’t to ‘one up’ her super high achieving sister. The other reason is having watched her gifted brother implode from a lack of self discipline.</p>

<p>My other child was never super driven in elementary or middle school but still got very good grades. With all out kids we always told them that we didn’t care what kind of grades they got, as long as they did their best. This child was absentminded and near the end of middle school I decided that bribing her to get perfect grades might be the answer to getting her to study more and turn in missing homework etc. I don’t know if it was a coincidence or not, but I think that started the whole drive toward perfection. She of course liked the presents, and then found she liked the adulation and feeling of accomplishment just as much, and ever since then she has been on a quest for a perfect GPA. It’s funny now though: in her senior year she no longer has to get great grades on every test etc. I’m looking at her D and B in two classes and wondering what happened, but she couldn’t care less because she says they are only a result of missing grades that were from being absent for AP tests, and she isn’t worried about her final grade.</p>

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<p>“It is almost mind-boggling to me that these kids have been perfect or near perfect consistently in everything that counted toward their grades through at least three years of high school. Sure they are plenty smart, but what are the qualities that separate them from other smart or even smarter peers who failed to come anywhere near this level of academic excellence?”</p>

<p>I wouldn’t say mind-boggling.</p>

<p>Typically High Schools do not require a lot, you don’t need to be anywhere “near perfect” to get perfect or near perfect GPAs, there is def plenty of room for error. This explains how many straight A students from high school struggle greatly in college - where there is still room for error but not as much. </p>

<p>Other similarly smart or even smarter peers will often get lower grades because they aren’t as motivated; otherwise, by definition, they would get grades just as good.</p>

<p>I think part of it is innate as well as self-motivation - you probably need at least a little of both and then either be great in both, or very good in one compared to your classmates (for example, super genius kid who is only a little motivated, or someone who is extreemly motived and is slightly more intelligent than peers, or just a overall good balance between intelligence and self motivation).</p>

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<p>I have three kids, two in college. One of them had one B, on one quarterly report card, from the time the schools started giving letter grades, until his first semester of college, when he earned an A- in two classes. Second semester he also earned a couple of A-'s. He is quite aware that at some point he’s going to NOT get an A, and I don’t think it will be a personal disaster. He jokes about it. </p>

<p>In his case, it is innate. Taught himself to read in preschool, etc. Same gene pool as the other two, same family, not a lot of pressure from parents, but he has pushed himself. He has approached music and sports in the same way. Very competitive with himself. Not a cutthroat among his friends or classmates, but sets high standards and goals for himself. Not sure exactly where that came from. Certainly not from me.</p>

<p>The other two are happy with A’s and B’s on report cards. They know we expect them to do well, and don’t kill themselves over their lack of “perfection”. They know they are good enough.</p>

<p>I believe that anyone’s GPA in high school isn’t particularly predictive of future success or failure. I doubt that my spouse’s high school classmates would have ever guessed where he would have ended up based on his work in hs. He always had a job, and was intensely involved in a non-school based sport in hs, and had middling grades. He didn’t hit his stride until sometime in college. He is one of the least “Type A” people I have ever met.<br>
Very smart, but not “driven” in the “Type A” sense of the word, and never has been. And yet he has been highly successful in his field.</p>

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<p>I had a friend in college like that. She would plan her course selections to include some “gut” classes, and in the tougher ones, she would grill students who had taken the class before to find out what she needed to say and how she needed to say it. There was no love of learning. No thirst for knowledge. Just a hyper-focus on getting As. </p>

<p>Fortunately, I got to know other students who truly enjoyed learning, and who got perfectly good grades (As and Bs). I think you can enjoy learning and do well. Some people just care about the A and the subject matter comes second.</p>

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<p>I’ve wondered this a lot, because my son was very limited in school choices due to his B average. His straight A classmates fall into two categories. Most are self-driven, they seem to have an innate drive that isn’t related to parent involvement. Evidence for this is that they are often the only child in the family to be earning A’s; some have siblings who have barely graduated high school. The second category is the classic “tiger child”, berated and punished by parents if they bring home less than an A. Surprisingly, both sets of kids seem to be equally well adjusted and having equal success with the college admissions. I suspect the tiger children will not inflict the same torment on their own children, but they seem intent on continuing their high achievement and I wonder if a bit more ‘pushing’ may have helped my son.</p>

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<p>I think that it is both. As parents, we instill a sense of value to the grades at a young age. But as they get older, and into middle school and HS, they start to develop their own value beliefs to their GPA, and that is when they decide how important the grade is to them. And how hard they want to push themselves.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the responses! In the limited samples we have in the last three hours, there are more folks saying it is innate, evidenced by either own experiences or examples of only sibling to excel.</p>

<p>If it is all innate, then there is very little parents or child can do. However, we do have a few who believe it can be learned or “pushed”. I’m very interested in the examples from the latter group, and I’m even more interested to know which qualities can be learned, and how to go about learning them.</p>

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<p>This by itself does not detach parental influence from the child’s drive, habits or discipline to excel. Your parents may have led you by their own excellent work ethic and discipline. I’m curious as to how much internalizing is done by osmosis. For example, if the parents are punctual and persistent in their work ethic and if they are also a big part of their kid’s childhood (i.e. quality family time), does their work ethic rub off on their child without persistent “pushing”?</p>

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<p>There is a cause-and-effect relationship here. In this case, the early childhood indoctrination led to the internalizing of parental value.</p>

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<p>Did you read the rest of what I said? My parents don’t have an incredible work ethic or anything of the sort. My dad used to somewhat, before his accident, but definitely not about school. Yes, I might have gotten some of that but not to the extent that I’ve developed it in my own life. My mother is EXTREMELY laid back and really only works so that she can relax :).</p>

<p>Again, I’ve been like this my whole entire life. Well before my parents could have pushed me.</p>

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<p>For the ones where it is innate, I think there is a downside, which has been mentioned here. I think some are Type As, who can’t relax or accept any imperfection. Of course, there are others who are just well-organized and very bright and who manage to pull off the 4.0 while still having a balanced life - god bless 'em, I think it’s an amazing feat.</p>

<p>However, I want to take exception to the one person who said it’s easy to get a perfect or near-perfect GPA in high school. No, it isn’t. Not for most people. I think one pitfall of being very bright is that some don’t have tolerance for anyone not as bright. For some average and even above-average students, high school is HARD. Perhaps their study habits aren’t as good. Perhaps they aren’t as mature. Perhaps they are good at some subjects but have difficulties with others. Perhaps they go to a really competitive high school. Perhaps they are juggling a lot of other activities or a job. You can be smart and still not easily get great grades. </p>

<p>For those that can get the 4.0 while still maintaining a balanced life, I think it’s a wonderful thing.</p>

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<p>I think they arrive in the world this way. I have two that are classic type A/academically driven (gifted programs…NMF…yada yada). I have one that is more of a B range student, although tests well too. I have another child that’s too young to make the call yet (Kindergarten). I think it’s mostly based in their genes.</p>

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<p>For DD2 it is just innate. Of course we wanted her to do well but she was/is the one who starts on a paper the same day it is assigned (that’s definitely not DW or me). You should have heard how peaved she was when she got two consecutive “poor” (non-A) grades because the instructor had not handed back the first paper before the second had to be handed in, preventing her from getting to what the instructor wanted. Fortunately she also does play. Keeping up with school work allows her to wander the town on weekends, participate in student clubs and attend sports events.</p>

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<p>I will say, since I have a decidedly non type-A child … I have tried to emphasize the importance of doing your best and working hard without driving her up a wall or making her run screaming in the opposite direction. lol I want her to be self-motivated, not to study to please me. I do think she cares more and tries harder than if she had been in a family where education wasn’t emphasized. But she’ll never be driven … it just isn’t in her.</p>

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<p>To be honest, I don’t see how a drive to get a GPA can be innate. It is an totally contrived goal. If you asked if people are born intelligent, or born with certain personality traits, that would be something to discuss. Of course, not all people who are intelligent and not all people who are hard-working get a perfect GPA, so there isn’t a correlation w/GPA either.</p>

<p>I think your question reflects feelings that a perfect GPA is always a good thing. Many posters answered about the drawbacks of working too hard toward grades, and how that work can be a way to avoid issues, or can even be outside the person’s control, as in perfectionisml.</p>

<p>I think the main problem with our educational system is that learning is measured by grades in the first place. I understand that some measurement may be necessary, but faculty and students lose track of the original purpose of grades, which was to help learning. Instead, things have gotten turned around so that learning happens so that there are grades!</p>

<p>Like others who posted, I did not look at my kids’ grades (I knew who was working hard) and they did not know their GPA’s until someone told them in late senior year. I also tried to keep them out of things like reading competitions. I believed that the more reliance on external goals (like grades), the lower the internal motivation to learn. We weren’t too dogmatic or obnoxious, just relaxed (at least I hope), and it worked out okay.</p>

<p>The other thing I want to say is that hard work and results don’t always match. There are kids with, say, ADHD who have a drive to prove themselves, work really really hard, but maybe don’t get the same grades as a kid who can do work easily but doesn’t give much time to it. Which kid would make you prouder? </p>

<p>Overall, I think that people are born with certain types of energy and talents, that can engender a drive toward excellence. But in many many cases the environment creates expectations that kids labor under until they grow up enough to have motivation that is independent of families and other outside influences.</p>

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<p>It’s often the strive for perfection. It just manifests itself in a 4.0</p>