<p>In the case of our D, I believe it is innate. My husband and I never put pressure on her to get a perfect GPA. She was the one who expected perfection. However, it got to the point where she was making herself sick. She suffered from anxiety and depression during her junior and senior year of high school because of the pressure. In my opinion, it’s just not worth it.</p>
<p>I have four very smart kids but only one of them ever achieved a perfect 4.0 UW GPA throughout high school (and middle school). That is my youngest.</p>
<p>I admit I am a little in awe of my D but I also think an UW GPA is a little like a perfect game in baseball. Not only does it take natural talent, lots of commitment and some really darn good study habits, I think it takes a bit of luck too. All it takes is one really bad teacher who just doesn’t care too much and an A can easily slide into a B no matter how hard a student tries. We thought my D’s straight A’s were history at the end of her Sophomore year when she had a very distracted Japanese teacher who was going through a divorce and just wasn’t focused on the class. She would forget to collect assignments and then ding the students for not turning them in and ignore their protests. She didn’t prep the kids at all for tests and by the end of the year everyone in the class was disillusioned and disheartened. My D was especially disheartened because she was hovering at a 89.9 after the last test was graded. But then the teacher must have had an attack of conscience because when the final grades were posted she moved my D and others up a by giving them all some extra credit points. I personally think she regained her post-divorce sanity and realized she has shorted the kids, but I don’t really know. My D was confused too as to her recollection there had never been any kind of extra credit assignment in the class. We didn’t find out until summer so never had a chance to ask the teacher and really didn’t care. It was a bit of good luck and D took that as a sign that the 4.0UW gods were on her side.</p>
<p>I will say this about 4.0UW. At first it was easy for D. After the bump in the road with her Japanese in 10th grade she sailed through her Junior year. Then Senior year came with a brutal schedule - 5 APs, a severe case of Senioritis and the countless distractions of college apps, future plans and lots of time consuming and distracting ECs. But this is when I personally saw what sets a 4.0UW apart from those other smart(er) kids who have a few B’s sprinkled in. My D set her jaw and through pure perseverance kept up her straight A’s through first semester of her Senior year. She brought her AP Physics grade up to a A after a disastrous start getting a ‘D’ on the first test. She brought her AP Stats grades to a high A after floundering for the first few weeks in the class. </p>
<p>My D never brags about her grades (I do though!) but she does get a bit annoyed when anyone discounts her achievements by saying it ‘comes easy for her’. I can state for a fact it does not come easy for her. She works her tail off. She starts homework the minute she walks in the door and she starts long-term assignments well before the last minute. But my other kids did that too. What sets D apart is that when she sees her grade slipping a bit she doubles-down and works twice as hard. I am convinced that inside that sweet, cute little exterior is a solid core of absolute steel.</p>
<p>There is also a difference between drive and perfectionism. I will admit that my driven child has an LD unlike his less driven brothers. My H and I have often wondered if that is what makes 3 different…but I am driven and competitive and I do not have an LD. I, think, it is a combination of my genetics and his LD…that perhaps without the LD he would not be as driven and competitive. He is NOT a perfectionist – there is no anxiety about what he sets off to achieve. Perfectionists tend to get hung up and look backward at what they coulda shoulda done when they don’t achieve what they want. Driven people tend to see not achieving their goal as an obstacle to overcome and it exhilarates them and they look forward. And yes, solid core of steel is a good way to explain the driven person.</p>
<p>I think there’s at least an element of cultural pressure and expectation. I recall reading about a girl who received something like a 770 on an SAT. She called it an “Asian fail.” Apparently, this is a fairly widespread–only half joking–locution.</p>
<p>DD2 is a 4.0 thru 3 years of middle school. That’s not likely due to the half Asian genes in her 
but rather, from her ability to (a) understand what the test/homework wants (b) do it correctly (c) use whatever gifts/talents you have to the max and (d) do not slack off and ignore the little things.</p>
<p>In other words, do not wrestle B’s out of the jaws of A’s, when it comes to it. DD1 had an uncanny ability to do just that. </p>
<p>In DD2’s case it’s quite interesting to notice that all her grades, tests, etc are 100+'s. Not 93.1, gee, I squeaked one thru. Not wow, I did well and missed a couple, 96. Usually 99 to 105. Now, granted, it’s public middle school, not Harvard, but still, her friends with the 3.8’s put in a few hours of study a day (2-3) while she spends mostly 15-20 minutes a day, maybe an hour during finals. She’s at the 99% or so in the state standardized tests. Even scarier, she actually knows the material. </p>
<p>I’m holding verdict until I see what she’ll do in 9th grade (she’s pre-IB planning on doing the full IB curriculum). Now that I know **how **she does it, I really don’t ask much **why **she does it.</p>
<p>I was never a valedictorian, cum laude, 4.0, etc. in high school. Yet somehow, I was considered “intellectual”, able to get awards in music, Spanish, and Envirothon. Some of the stuff I could write was remarkable (I’m not trying to brag here - you will see why very soon). I was at least good at SOMETHING. My GPA was 3.4-3.6-ish.</p>
<p>Now, three years into college, I’m convinced that BC’s biology program’s motto is “Abandon hope all ye who enter here”, since college has been HELL. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’ve gone to counseling, sought all types of help - NOTHING has been good.</p>
<p>GPA is…ummm…2.7. Ouch.</p>
<p>It’s a long, drawn-out tragedy (in the metaphorical sense).</p>
<p>PCP- It is not innate in my son. He is naturally bright, but can be a slacker. I am definitely a believer that hard work and drive in parents can be learned by children. Lead by example. I, (I can hear the gasps from CC now), ripped up 2 or 3 homework assgts in 5/6th grade and said- "if you’re not going to turn in your best work, just have the b—lls to go into the teacher and say- “i’m not doing the work.” That got his attention ! On the other hand while I laid down a “no B” rule for high school, I did offer any help I could to achieve that goal- tutor, drilling in AP Bio, buying extra text books to keep at home,etc- whatever it took. Now, in hindsight, maybe there were other ways to produce straight A’s, but I didn’t have the luxury to wait until his maturity level kicked in ( middle of junior year or so, - it would have been too late).</p>
<p>A “no B” rule? Are you serious?</p>
<p>cheekymonkey- I hope you are a ■■■■■ and not for real! My kids attended schools where hardly anyone got all As and it wasn’t expected. Kids were encouraged to stretch themselves and not be so concerned with grades that they weren’t willing to explore some of the offerings at their schools. There were no class ranks, either. We always expected our kids to do as well as they reasonably could, but we certainly accepted Bs. Both kids graduated from highly selective colleges and have careers, so I guess their lives weren’t ruined by the Bs!</p>
<p>Out of my three children, my youngest son fits in this category. He is just finishing the 9th grade and has As in everything, and doesn’t need to work hard at it–so far–including an A+ in AP calculus. He received a perfect score on the Latin 1 national exam without studying. Personally, I’m interested in seeing how far he can maintain this without putting in the work–maybe soon. He has started working with a private tutor in math–a PhD in math–who says he will have to put in a couple of hours each day to be successful with the problems and proofs that he is receiving. It has been a bit of a struggle to get him going. </p>
<p>I believe that natural ability can take you far but only so far. There comes a time when the Edison precept comes into play, “one percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” I wonder if some with loads of ability run into problems with achievement because they haven’t learned how to work hard. Next year when he’s taking 4 APs we’ll see if he can still glide by.</p>
<p>I read this interesting blog post, “Great mathematicians on math competitons and ‘genius’.” </p>
<p>One Fields Medalist, Timothy Gowers has this to say about Andrew Wiles, who won the Fields Medal for solving the most famous math problem, Fermat’s Last Theorem:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>[Great</a> Mathematicians on Math Competitions and “Genius” - Less Wrong](<a href=“Great Mathematicians on Math Competitions and "Genius" — LessWrong”>Great Mathematicians on Math Competitions and "Genius" — LessWrong)</p>
<p>MOWC and PG - I’ m absolutely serious. Think of it this way. He doesn’t work, doesn’t play any organized sports after sophomore year, unless you count ultimate frisbee, doesn’t do laundry, has never made a bed, works on homework for less than an hour during his soph and junior yes and this yr he has not picked up a school book that I have seen. He’s 11th in his class. He spends time reading and playing video games and lounging w his friends Why wouldn’t I expect straight a’s? I actually admired PARTS of tiger mom’s book. I mean she was at the extreme end of the bell curve but why not raise the bar high? If he had been trying his hardest and it just wasn’t happening or he had worked hours and hours and was struggling I might have cut him some slack but I work hard to succeed and support him so why shouldn’t he have some responsibility in life. I considered high school his job. Lol I did let him skip school yesterday and I showed him how to do a load of laundry.</p>
<p>Now what if your child chooses to rebel? What’s the punishment?</p>
<p>You would not want me as your mother. Just kidding. Actually my mantra was people who get straight A’s and understand where priorities are ( education) are mature enough to not need managing in the other parts of their lives i.e. No curfew or real rules. Now people who have not matured enough to understand their responsibilities and the potential outcomes need more parental involvement in all parts of their lives. My son figured out the math early on. I was raised like this with a LOT of social freedom as long as I produced the grades so I guess it’s a generational thing.</p>
<p>Sure, I understand where you are coming from, but you still have not answered my question. What if your child chooses to actively do bad in school? How will you respond? Will you break down and contemplate whether or not you raised your child right? Will you ground your child? What will you do?</p>
<p>
I will respond based on my personal experience…I find my kids like to please us, if at all possible (it is a very powerful tool if parents know how to utilize it properly). They also know that we always have their best of interest at heart. If I were to tell them that it is important to do well in school, they would do whatever is necessary to do that, unless they could find a very valid reason not wanting to do well in school. More often than not, if they disagreed with us, they would talk it over with us, instead of going against our wishes out right. My kids are not robots without their own mind, but they often find we are very aligned in terms of what they want.</p>
<p>I have joked around before that our kids would do a powerpoint presentation if they wanted to do something that I didn’t want them to do, but the truth is if they could come up with valid reasons then I could be persuade to change my mind. It is better to try to change my mind instead of doing something behind my back. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t think I have not raised my kid right because she chooses not to do well in school. I would think I have not raised my kid right, if she couldn’t talk it over with me as to why she is making that choice (if it’s a choice at all).</p>
<p>Dave: if I answer you honestly I hope you won’t judge me too harshly. I’m really nice but i can turn into psycho mom at the drop of a hat. My theory is that i can’t stop you from making me unhappy or miserable by not living up to your responsibilities , but if i’m unhappy we’re all going into scorched earth mode. No money, no phone, no computer, no cable or electronics no video games. Why would anyone want to chose a life of deprivation when a life of relative luxury is awarded for good grades? think when I first ripped up the homework my son was young enough that it made a great impression . Also when he was very young (4 or 5) we were stopped in traffic on a hot August afternoon and there were men digging ditches beside the car- sweating, panting , bright red. I said see those men? They didn’t do well in school and they didn’t go to college…I could see the wheels turning.</p>
<p>I have always admired you oldfort</p>
<p>Sorry dave I got sidetracked. In answer to your question I would make their life such a living hell that they would see that trying their best was probably their best option. That being said I do rewards really well. Kinda carrot and stick . Remind me to tell you about the story sometime about the one B + in AP Chemical my DS got one semester. I can laugh now but I cried more than I ever have in my life… 5 days… Not pretty…don’t worry…he lived…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You went psycho mom on your kid for getting a B+ in one of the hardest AP classes? Or am I missing something?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s not true on so many levels.</p>
<p>I’m not saying it was my finest hour. It was just so unexpected. he had a low A and on the day grades closed he got a D in a major test. He had never gotten a D on a chem test so I was just dumfounded. I can actually blame CC because the little I had been on it led me to believe that a B+ was the end of days. Romani- I should have been more specific. I meant in our house good grades = luxury . Not life in general . Even I 'm not that crazy. That requires hard work, opportunity and a dash of luck.</p>