D's chances at brown

<p>Wow - just returned from my Ds overnight Dorm visit at Brown. She thoroughly enjoyed it and truly loves this university. I'd love some feedback from the group on her chances. Her stats are below. She is applying ED.</p>

<p>SATI: 1380 (did take on 10/9 and awaiting results)
SATIIs: taking in Nov
GPA: 3.8 UW , 4.6 W
Class Rank: 15/267
13 AP courses Junior & Senior year
Many EC's:
Filed Hockey - 4 years
Track - 4 years
Treasurer Student Council
Newspaper contributing reporter
Model Congress
Volunteer hours 200 including 100+ of them with developmentally disabled adults
National Foreign Language HS
National Art HS
National Math HS
Honor Roll all four years at school
Great essay and excellent rec's expected
Hardest course load at competitive public high school</p>

<p>First generation as neither parent attended college</p>

<p>I prefer not to do Chances posts and feel it would be remiss to give a judgement when I would need to know way more about your daughter. But I will offer you a general comment. I think your daughter's basic "stats" that you gave put her in the ballpark for Brown, meaning that she has the basics to be entering the pool of applicants. I don't have enough information to go beyond that. For instance, there are no SAT2 scores, no writing sample, no recs to read, no transcript, no explanation as to her role or achievements in her activities. Though she has the stats to put herself into this pool, it is very difficult to judge the odds of admission for her. A large majority of applicants to a school such as Brown are "qualified" to get in, far more than they can take. There is an element of luck to it as they are choosing kids to build a class and want all different types. Your D could be qualified but they have several like her and it may go her way or it may not. ED will help with the odds. The overall rate of acceptance last year was 15 or 16% so they were turning away many highly qualified applicants (including valedictorians and 1600 SAT type kids...I know as I heard the head of admissions speak to accepted students' parents). So, it is too hard to say if your D will get in, only that she is an appropriate applicant to Brown. There will be kids with higher stats and achievements as well. One big plus for your D is that she is first generation!!! I don't know what her special talents or strengths are but make sure she finds a way to truly showcase who she is as to not look identical to everyone else. Brown is a wonderful school and I hope your D gets her wish but I also hope she goes into this process with a realistic outlook that even though she is qualified to be admitted, the odds are such that you cannot count on it. If she does not get in, it does not imply that she was not "good enough" when we are talking schools with such low admit rates. Hopefully she likes several schools and all her hopes and dreams do not rest on just this one. She has a fine record so far and I feel confident she will get into a very good school, just cannot say which one that will be. You have lots to be proud of, good luck.</p>


<p>Thanks, Susan. I appreciate the feedback and of course know that the info porvided is not as in depth as an app will be. I know from reading your other posts that your D is at Brown so really do appreciate your thoughts as you've been there. What really impresses my D about Brown is two-fold; the open curriculum and the diversity. She explained it this way: "Mom - there were the popular kids and the not so popular kids all in a group together. They got along like they had known each other forever and they have only known each other for five weeks. Everyone is welcoming and truly appears to enjoy the group. There doesn't seem to be a competitive atmosphere and no one judges anyone else." She does have a list of 8 schools that she will apply to and is ,of course, prepared for rejection if it comes from Brown. (Tulane, Bucknell, Colgate, Wake Forest, Loyola College, Penn State) But, one can hope. I have learned that Brown does look more at the person than the Stats as we spoke to several students that had SATs in the 1200 range but of course had other hooks. (And there are going to be at least about 1500 lucky individuals for the Class of 2009)</p>

<p>I'm also applying to Brown (ED), and like Soozievt said, it's very difficult to judge chances at any school unless it is very numbers driven in respect to the application process. A while ago I went to a Brown information night, and they stressed how the transcript was the most important part of the application. Brown seems to have the reputation of being the least "score-oriented" of many well-known schools, but obviously they are succeeding in finding sudents who are very motivated and self-involved with their educations.</p>

<p>Brown has been my first choice school for over a year now, but I've tried very hard to approach the situation knowing full well that it is more than likely I won't get in. Many people might consider this overly pessimistic, but with an acceptance rate in the teens, I'm not sure anyone can consider Brown or comparable schools as certainties. It's good that she's approaching it with that in mind, I know that was one of the issues my parents and I discussed prior to deciding that I would apply early.</p>

<p>I have an overnight scheduled at Brown for this week coming up, and I'm quite excited for it. Any suggestions you'd pass along to make things go more smoothly? There are a bunch of classes that I'd like to check out and my local admissions rep told me to stop by and say hi, but other than that I'm not really sure what to do while on campus. A year ago I spent three weeks of my summer at Brown, so I'm pretty well acquainted with the area, but if there's any one thing I should make sure I should do...</p>

<p>Best of luck to your daughter. :)</p>

<p>Hi Snapple - my D was very nervous when we arrived since this was her first overnight visit and she didn't know what to expect. She did follow the instructions on the letter and took sleeping bag etc. but chose to come back to my hotel for shower etc. She felt comfortable asking lots of questions and the girls she stayed with were very happy to answer them and give advise. She didn't get a lot of sleep so the visit has to be deemed a success. I did learn from these boards to take a little gift as a thank you (they are after all having you into their "home" as a guest for the night) and they were very appreciative. Nothing expensive just something small & thoughtful. I wish you lots of luck in the process - you seem to have it together and I know you'll do well!</p>

<p>I'm a bit nervous as this is my first "official" college overnight (i.e. where I'm not staying with friends who happen to go to that school). Several friends of mine do go to Brown, but since it is my top choice I felt that it would be a better idea to set up an overnight through the school, just to get a more realistic impression.</p>

<p>I'm doing all the travel on my own, which doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me, but it is a bit intimidating to figure out all the transportation and such. The sentence in the letter reading "feel free to bring your own schoolwork, as Brown students will have some of their own..." certainly made me laugh, especially given the huge packets of work and test review that I seem to have amassed from teachers this afternoon.</p>

<p>Thanks for mentioning about a gift, I never even thought of that! I'll have to stop by Barnes & Noble and pick something up before I leave ;)</p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

<p>I have to say I think her chances are small. Though she is very qualified the admittance rate is low. Unless you have an outstanding something or other ..ie daughter of the President, or published a novel, etc. the odds are just not that good. Sorry, and I hope I am wrong.</p>

<p>MarylandMom, </p>

<p>Your daughter sounds like she has a good list of schools and is being realistic and going into this process just right. Boy, she really got a sense of Brown all right. What she said of the kids seems very true. The peers at Brown, so far, have been one of the major highlights for my daughter. She says that though they are "brilliant", they "know how to have fun." She says that the kids in her dorm have become a "family". I think she has more friends and has been involved in more social activity in six weeks than in the entire past year at home. The kids are really friendly and diverse. She also finds the open curriculum a neat feature as it means you direct your own learning. She is a very motivated type student and I think is enjoying being in her "element" with others like that. She had done various independent studies in the past and she seems like a learner well suited to this school. She finds the classes VERY challenging. However, so far she is exceling in her grades and feedback from professors and it is a nice way to start her first semester with seeing that she can really do so well in such a learning setting, and that is even coming from our small public rural high school, not in the league of high schools many of her fellow classmates hail from. There is also so much to do at Brown and the surrounding area is a lot of fun for her. She loves having places to go in walking distance. She even hosted a party in her room last night. She is working very hard but also having a lot of fun. She is also on the varsity ski team and has made a close knit group of friends on that in addition. They have been training 7 times per week. She called excitedly today to say they finally hired a new coach (the coach quit this past summer) and her team was part of the interviewing process and I guess they hired the person she (and others on team) wanted. Up until now, they have been dryland training as a team without an adult leading them. I can't wait to see her for Parent Weekend. </p>

<p>I am glad to hear your D stayed for an overnight. I think when you are contemplating ED, or first choices, it is best to do an overnight. She has done that too. If your D ever needs a kid to talk to on campus, get in touch and I can likely connect her to my D who is the type who is more than happy to help in this kind of situation. She just hosted someone last week who she met briefly one time before and she made the offer and the girl took her up on it and my D took her all around to what she was interested in. She knew others had helped her on college visits in this way and it was now her turn to return that kind of favor for someone else. Which dorm did your D stay in? </p>

<p>Snapple....don't get nervous on the overnight. My kids have done many overnights and often with strangers (sometimes with friends) and believe me, hosts are always really great in showing you a nice time and kids DO open up and share about their school and stuff, because at one point, they were in YOUR shoes. Take this opportunity to mix with several kids and just ask questions and also observe the scene and the types of kids and so forth. Getting first hand info. like this from students beats any college catalogue! And the Brown kids seem like very very friendly people!</p>

<p>As far as what to do....yes, observing classes is good. You can write the professor ahead of time to get an OK. My D lined up appointments ahead of time with either department heads or professors in her field of interest so she could learn more about it. She also met with either coaches or even team captains in a club sport or activity (i.e., dance) in her interest areas to learn more about those opportunities. She usually ate in the cafeteria to see what that was like, also to just "people watch" and also she went up to random kids to ask how they liked the school or why they picked it, etc. She also visited several dorm rooms to get a sense of the living situations at each school. Follow up on any appointments with thank you notes. I don't know your EC interests but let's say they are orchestra or a capella or tennis club or whatever...you may be able to attend a practice to check it out. </p>

<p>Enjoy your visit! And good luck to both girls! </p>


<p>I can't speak to the OP's chances. As Soozie has pointed out you are certainly numericallly qualified and ED won't hurt. I can speak to the Brown experience just as Soozie's D has and what to check out on a visit (though it really depends on your interests) so if you have any questions, fire away.</p>

Don't worry about the transportation part - the airport is 15 minutes from the campus. You'll be fine. The part about the homework - trust me - you won't have time so don't bother carrying it along. Those books can be heavy and there wasn't any time when my D was there to do any homework. It was a real socializing opportunity so take advantage so you get a great feel of everything.</p>

She stayed in a dorm at 302 Thayer Street. I don't know the name of the dorm though.</p>

<p>Does Brown have a "Why Brown?" question on its application? Tell her to keep jotting down observations and reflections like the one you quoted above. If her essays can sound sincere and thoughtful and show that she really loves Brown for what it is and not just for its Ivy status, I'm sure that will help.
In the old threads, InterestedDad had lots of good advice about packaging an application that is built around creating a strong identity for your student and that is really tailored to the school in question.
Best of luck!</p>

<p>Thanks for the advice, kiddielit. I'll let her know and do some searching of those old posts.</p>

<p>I have done alumni interviews for Brown for ten years and am always suprised to hear that Brown isn't score-oriented, because that's not what I've found. Your daughter sounds like a great kid; if you can have her sit down and look at her ECs and really hone in on how she has made a difference in her world with one of them, really contributed something to other people that comes out of her intellectual hunger, creative originality, and humanitarian instincts (though I wouldn't use those words in an essay) she may get their attention. I'm glad she's retaken the SAT. Geography also plays a role...Good luck.</p>

<p>I am not flying to Providence, but instead have a somewhat convoluted travel schedule which involves Boston, Providence, Washington, and Baltimore before I come home. The work is mostly for the hours on the train or airplane, and I've made copies of whatever pages in the book I need. Although the area to describe one's reasons for applying to Brown is relatively small on the application, I'm sure it is scrutinized intensely.</p>

<p>A lot of Brown's applicants might simply be drawn by the "Ivy" name and the promise of no distribution requirements, so I'd say your daughter is a step ahead if she has already identified other reasons to be so smitten with the school.</p>

<p>Alright, time to go pack! Best of luck to you and your D.</p>

Thanks for the feedback. I may have mis-stated the score oriented part. I did not mean to state that Brown is not score oriented but that it is not the only piece. It appears from the discussions I've had with those attending and some admissions folks that the focus is not solely on the stats and that they seek out those students that will add something to the community. Based on my Ds feedback they do an excellent job in that regard. Of course the stats matter for something as it is an Ivy and the median score range for the SAT is right up there. Thanks for your feedback and advice. I'll make sure she gets it. Since you have done alumni interviews do you have any advice along those lines?</p>

<p>Maryland Mom, was she in a freshman residence? and was it on the Pembroke end of the campus? I am thinking yes to those questions. If so, I think she was just one dorm over from where my D's dorm is. My daughter has really enjoyed that location as it is steps off of Thayer Street where there are lots of places to go. She also does not have to go outside to get to the dining hall and she is not as far from athletics, though is further from classrooms but truly they are not far at all. The dorm life for these freshmen are divided into little "units" and I think her unit has become close knit. </p>

<p>Kiddielit, yes, Brown has a "Why Brown" question on the application, if I recall, coupled with your field of interest type question. I want to say that even IF a college did not have this question, I believe every student should address it with SPECFICS and can tie in things from the visit...if not in an essay on this topic, then in a cover letter. My kids have for each school. MarylandMom's daughter should describe just what is appealing about Brown (where she could not substitute another college's name) and why she fits there and bring up various people she spoke with or things she did while on campus and so forth. </p>

<p>And yes, for any applicant, "who" they are needs to be shown on the application, beyond the stats. Most kids will have the stats, possibly even higher ones that MarylandMom's daughter, so showing who she is in her materials...highlighting traits/qualities/strengths is critical. </p>


<p>Marylandmom, my comment re Brown's scores rep was not directed at you. This is something I have heard again and again. I used to get all excited about applicants whose scores were ok but not great but who were creative and interesting, because I thought Brown really paid attention to those kids. It may be because I live in a major metro area, but I have too often been disappointed and then hear about kids with high boards who may have been less "original" getting admitted.</p>

<p>Re the interview, I'd encourage your d to bring along a couple of her favorite clippings from the school paper, articles she's written that she might like to talk about, if she feels comfortable doing that. I'd also encourage her to do some reflecting on her many volunteer hours so that she can share some memorable, real-life anecdotes. Anything that will help her feel comfortable revealing herself as fully as possible will be helpful. And I'd ask her to come up with some questions that demonstrate that she has done her homework and is very eager to contribute to the Brown campus. (Sometimes kids come in and ask, "Does Brown have distribution requirements?" I kid you not!) When an applicant comes in prepared to speak in some depth, to really convey her enthusiasm about her own pursuits as well as about the university, the interviewer can't help but get excited. After the interview, it is a good idea to write a hand-written thank you note. If she has any questions for the interviewer after they meet, she can feel free to contact the person. And tell your d not to worry, most alums who are doing these interviews enjoy meeting young people and talking about learning and doing at Brown, so it's not designed to be scary. Good luck to her! I'd be glad to answer other questions, or direct you to someone who can give a bette answer, along the way.</p>

<p>aparent, Actually your suggestions were terrific for interviews at ANY school. I really like the idea of doing some thinking up front about specific ancedotes from volunteering or EC's so you have something to discuss...and I know from my own job interviewing experiences that it's always great to have something in hand to "show and tell" about as a conversation starter. Thanks for these great tips!</p>

<p>Thanks, Carolyn. (I wanted to thank you by private message but haven't yet figured out how to send pm's on this board!)</p>