Does anyone have experience or advice as far as pursuing a dual degree with engineering in 4 years? DS27 is interested in mechanical engineering and political science or philosophy. After a cursory search of college web sites, it looks like it’s possible to earn a dual degree in 4 years. At Illinois, for example, a student at the engineering school, who’s completed 30 credits at Illinois, can petition another college to be to pursue a second degree. Purdue has a “Degree Plus” program where students can pursue a degree in engineering as well as one from the College of Liberal Arts.
If anyone has experience/advice re a dual degree at these or other schools, I’d really appreciate it. Thanks so much.
Everyone I know who has done this has needed 5 years, but my sample size is not big AND most have done it at very selective schools which give standing/placement for APs, but not credit.
So my first bit of advice is to find schools which award credit, rather than more advanced standing, for AP/IB/DE credits, which hopefully you have in abundance.
The challenge is that engineering has a pretty prescribed set of classes, so having time/flexibilty in the schedule to take classes outside of that, makes fulfilling all the requirements of an unrelated degree quite difficult.
Purdue is very generous with AP credits so if your child comes in with a lot of credits, it can absolutely be done in 4 years. Your child will just need to work with their advisor from day one to carefully plan out the 4 year plan of study and make sure that the gen ed requirements overlap properly so they count for both majors.
The one thing to consider if a career in engineering is the end goal, is that your child will be sacrificing all their elective spots for their other major instead of being able to develop a concentration/speciality area in their engineering discipline. Having more depth can help with job placement. At Purdue, your child could minor in philosophy or poly sci and still have room for an engineering concentration. I don’t think that would be possible with a dual degree.
You are discussing a dual major, not a dual degree and it can be easily done (I imagine school dependent) but in part depending on what you bring in.
My son could have done a double major with math but decided not to. Instead did a minor in geography and a few 12 credit semesters.
He walked in with 2nd year status although many of the credits he got didn’t help toward engineering so he still took 4 years. I suppose he could have gotten out a semester earlier.
But he could have gotten either two or three minors but definitely a double major. We talked about it and he decided against and rather pursued something of interest.
So I imagine it’s a yes but more likely if you choose a school that accepts APs well (typically public) and what the student brings in and not just what, but are they classes that count.
His school was Alabama but I imagine it’d be similar at most any public school - and certainly one that will accept 3s for APs. But if the student achieves higher scores, then also schools that only take 4s and 5s.
Gardenstatelegal has put his/her finger on the problem. Every worthwhile engineering program is ABET accredited, which means that they all have to meet the same heavy course requirements. That doesn’t leave room for the credits needed to complete the requirements for a second degree in another school although it would be possible to to do a minor inphilosophy at a lot of schools. Typically this kind of double degree program takes 5 years to complete.
Vwlizard has pointed to University of Rochester as the exception. This is because Rochester has an a modified open curriculum which has minimal required courses in the School of Arts & Sciences, making it easier to meet the requirements for the BA although the ABET course requirements are still there for engineering. Even at Rochester, it would take 136 credits to do this, which is the equivalent of an extra semester. Schools with an open curriculum are rare and those with an open curriculum + engineering are rarer still. The only other one which comes to mind is Brown..
So, looking for schools with an open curriculum or those which will accept transfer credits for courses taken for college credit in high school would seem to be way to go.
Two degrees in four years can be accomplished. My two children both have acquaintances/friends who have done it (Johns Hopkins, U Michigan, Northwestern, etc.). However, squeezing everything in a four-year schedule is highly likely going to make the job-seeking difficult. Among the several people (2 degrees in 4 years) my kids know of, one has decided to add one more semester (and an internship this summer), the others are all going to graduate school, with two taking a shadowing year before applying to medical school.
I should add my son’s college gf did a double major (not degree) with Metalurgical Engineering and English.
I think the way to look at this is - if you plan to pursue engineering for a living, you go with that as a major. You can certainly do a minor - and a major is sometimes just four or six more classes (18 to 30 or 36 units) - and you can likely do that too - and maybe it takes a summer or an 18 credit semester but I’m guessing it can be done.
But I would start with the premise of engineering and choose the right school for me - and you can certainly add that 2nd major assuming the school offers it.
At some schools, the major class may be able to count as a General Ed. At another, it may not double count - so that might be another thing to look at.
Yes, while it may be possible to do a double major with engineering at some schools in 4 years, the OP wants a dual degree which is a different kettle of fish. Even the idea of a double major in this case, it can only be done with very careful planning.
Thank you. This is good to know. Another good thing about Rochester is that if you can’t manage to finish in 4 years, a 5th year of tuition is free. DS27 wants to see if he can do it in 4 years, but, as everyone warns, that’s difficult to accomplish.
We drove by the UR campus, drove around some. He doesn’t like upstate NY, but the weather’s no worse than what we’re used to in suburban Chicago, and no worse than Illinois and Purdue, where he definitely wants to apply.
Yes, I understand but the way it was written, I was thinking double major. I’m not sure what a double “degree” gets you that a double major doesn’t when your 2nd major is a liberal art. You still need to do the major requirements. It’s then just a question of additional gen eds or other requirements, etc. to get that double degree
A double degree is likely less possible to do in four years - but that would certainly be school specific. And I’m not sure where the advantage would be vs. a double major but that’s up to OP.
IMHO, it is easier to pick up a second major than it is to double degree.
@margej perhaps this is an option your student could consider. That and adding minors in something other than the major area of study.
My own kid did a double major…two different colleges with her university. She had to satisfy all of the requirements for both majors and there were some distinct differences as well as some overlap. I need to qualify this by saying…our kid picked up the second major because she realized she never wanted to work on engineering (her first major). But she did complete the requirements for both majors. She also took courses in the summer one year, and had a very large courseload almost every term.
If your son is already in college, he should discuss option with his advisor. If he is not yet in college, it might be better to wait until he gets there. He could change his mind entirely about engineering, and these other majors!
Brown embeds that ABET required general education requirements into the major requirements of its ABET accredited engineering majors, although such courses could all be applied to a second major in humanities or social science.
As a practical matter, this is just a math problem. Expressed in terms of semester hour credits, doing an engineering major and a humanities or social science major would require:
75+ credits for engineering (30+ math and science, 45+ engineering). Most engineering majors at most colleges require more.
40-48 credits for the humanities or social science major.
Add any additional courses for general education that do not overlap with either major (e.g. English composition, foreign language, distribution).
Subtract any incoming credit (AP, DE, etc.) that is applicable as both credit and subject fulfillment for any requirements listed above.
If the total adds up to more than 120-128 credits or equivalent, then it is likely that overloading or extra semesters or summer sessions would be needed.
I understand that some WPI students double major in engineering disciplines AND they are also generous with APs and DEs credits.. but not sure would have your choice of double interests… Some do double robotics and mechanical- or CS and something…I am not sure it is easy, but I think can make it work.. I don’t think they would have philosophy, maybe political science..they have some sort of international studies I believe..Kids with enough credits, apparently, can even do a masters in 4 years occasionally..
On other hand, I know RIT (vs. U of Rochester) strongly discourages anyone from considering double majoring (or double degree) if a stem major (also tricky with coops which are truly required for engineering majors) and I can’t picture how it would work in 4 year semesters of classes with all the requirements - HOWEVER, they are SUPER generous with transfer and clep and APs etc though, so if your kid is advanced it actually may be doable if second major (in another school) doesn’t have required coops. (Note the program would be 5 years because of engineering, but 4 years tuition).
Northeastern talks good talk about double majors across board, you could check there potentially too…not sure how feasible it is to actually double up with engineering but I swear the talk a lot about it in the info session I went to awhile ago..
(also like above I am talking about a double major vs. double degree for most part as I am not sure difference, in practice, assuming you are getting a full abet engineering degree)
Typically a MechE major is designed so that it just barely fits into the 4 years… but that is the standard schedule, assuming no advanced credit. And many students are now coming in with substantial AP / DE or college credit. For schools that are generous in accepting these credits, or for students who are comfortable overloading their schedules (and I know SOME students are comfortable with that), it’s definitely possible at many schools to double major.
Whether it’s actually a good idea to double major is a different question, though. @momofboiler1 makes an excellent point that bears repeating:
Taking my son as an example, due to AP credits, he could have easily graduated in 3 years with his engineering major (even while taking 1-2 unrelated breadth classes in most terms), but he decided to go ahead and complete his senior year for an additional year of depth in his desired specialty. He’s at a very good school for his major, and there are still advanced courses with really great professors that he doesn’t want to miss out on. He did consider a double major early on, but he’s glad in the end that he didn’t spread out his course choices too thinly over two majors, so that now he has the chance to really get this depth.
My kid at WPI majored in MechE and CivE and minored in English in four years. If he had only done one of the engineering majors he would’ve had room for a full English major instead of minor. (I don’t know this difference between a dual degree and double major, so I’m not addressing that.). He also had friends that were dual majors in MechE and Business. If you come in with enough AP credits it’s definitely possible. For the OP, though, while there are some philosophy courses I don’t think there are enough for a major.
A student majoring in mechanical engineering at the University of Rochester would need to fulfill three courses of cluster requirements in each of the humanities and social sciences. Your son’s second major would fulfill one of these clusters and his additional interests would naturally fulfill the other. Further, without strong divisions between “schools” that may be encountered at other universities, UR is especially suited to such an approach.
Honestly, I’m not sure life would be materially different if the student gets two degrees or one degree with a minor in philosophy or poli science. I’d focus on finding the best fit affordable college and go from there.