If the sin of hypocrisy merits 70+ pages, surely one more digression as to whether there’s any meaning to the number of pages isn’t too much.
Molestation is reprehensible, hypocrisy?.. not so much. If it was, there would be epic discussions regarding the kind of monster that, say, burns jet fuel by the tanker truck yet preaches sustainability to the masses. Or, promotes restrictive guns laws all while having them at his own home. The topics are endless, since hypocrites are as common as dirt.
My experience is that they consider themselves much, much, much smarter than the faith-driven rubes they share the planet with. Matter of fact, they seem so sure of it they tend to proselytize about it, when they take a break from telling each other how superior they are.
I’ve admitted before that I’m not religious, but I’m not including myself in the above. Gave that kind of elitism up decades ago.
Forgive my ignorance here, but can a micro-aggression truly qualify as a micro-aggression if it’s not labeled & treated as such by an authority figure? In other words, when does it graduate from a simple difference in viewpoint to something silly?
Zmom, many on the thread, who weren’t aware of the Duggars, did wonder if some talk was against Christians. It’s really about the Duggars. And I had picked up on this: “many here who are not fond of Christians and hunt them for hypocrisy like beagles and bedbugs.” Maybe some in real life do. But some of us don’t feel the thread was rabidly anti-religion, in general. (More about faith systems that allow blanket forgiveness.) Nor meant to question any posters’ faiths. In fact, some who identify strongly with their religions also piped up with some SMH about this very public family. And my comment about those whose “mission” is to be kind and tolerant meant those folks I know, who seek no praise for what they do, they just do it because it is right, to them, even if not from some religious principles. Not about you. Kudos for your service. Really. I wish more folks could do something.
And Cat, you have to understand a lot of this thread has been an exploration. I can’t pick a poster I’d say was on a terribly high horse. The Duggars made a public show of their intolerance and yet proved mortal. Then, forgave themselves in ways they cannot forgive/accept/love others. Hence the hypocrisy. And then sought to downplay the molestation. Double hypocrisy. If they believe they are going to heaven for saying the “right” words, fine. I personally think the recipe is a bit different.
I can barely fathom the phrase, “faith-driven rubes.” So odd. (Reminds me of the threads about Asian Americans and admissions, where Asian Americans criticize themselves, as a group.) To me, faith does not equal “rubery.” Too many examples of the opposite.
I’m sure everyone in this world is guilty of some hypocrisy. That is NOT what this thread is about. This thread is about a family who goes on TV, so that week after week, they can ‘teach’ millions of people, many who do not watch this show with a critical eye, that their way of living is the ONLY way to heaven. And maybe they don’t say those words exactly on TV (who knows, maybe they do and TLC edits that stuff out), but then they take that notoriety they have gained from that TV show (where they make HUGE amounts of money), and use it to promote causes that specifically admonish huge numbers of populations in this country, and around the world, for their own life choices.
And the kicker is, then, they have put their family out there on TV for many years, earning into probably the millions of dollars (if you include all the cash they’re making on the side for speaking appearances and books), directly bashing people and life styles that they won’t even admit that they’re factually wrong about (homosexuals are pedophiles). And they are much more direct in their propagation of lies off air than on, but they know that a large majority of people that follow them on TV are also following what they’re doing off TV. That’s what irks so many of us and you can’t lump that in with the every day hypocrisy we all experience in our lives.
@catahoula So, you are not religious, but remove yourself from your own accusation that “they consider themselves much, much, much smarter than the faith-driven rubes they share the planet with”. That’s a good one.
Atheists are pretty sure they are right. Christians are pretty sure they are right. Muslims are pretty sure they are right. Jews are pretty sure they are right.
Again, I don’t see anyone criticizing Christianity. I think the reason for the criticism of the Duggars has been articulated clearly, many times.
We do not have cable, and I have never watched a reality show, except when Survivor first came out years ago, but my understanding is that reality shows are inexpensive for networks to produce compared to advertising income.
@emeraldkity4, we don’t have a complete answer. it is the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Bill Gates has never declared himself an atheist and we don’t know what religious philosophy he wife has.
EK4, I’ve been told that as an atheist I can’t have a moral code and sorts of other nonsense because I don’t believe in God.
It’s all crap and I long ago stopped listening. I volunteer, open my home to humans and animals in need, and have taken lower paying jobs that are community service driven rather than higher paying ones I was offered for for-profit companies.
Yes, in the US religious people tend to volunteer and donate more than atheists ( interestingly, not true in the UK). However, when you exclude giving to churches then atheists beat out religious people in terms of donations and the numbers become more similar when you exclude churches that require mission trips.
His wife is an alumna and generous supporter of The Ursuline Academy in Dallas, a private all girls Catholic school. I suppose that doesn’t necessarily mean she isn’t an atheist, but it does seem pretty unlikely.
"You’re a technologist, but a lot of your work now with the foundation has a moral dimension. Has your thinking about the value of religion changed over the years?
The moral systems of religion, I think, are superimportant. We’ve raised our kids in a religious way; they’ve gone to the Catholic church that Melinda goes to and I participate in. I’ve been very lucky, and therefore I owe it to try and reduce the inequity in the world. And that’s kind of a religious belief. I mean, it’s at least a moral belief."
The moral systems of religion, I think, are super important. We’ve raised our kids in a religious way; they’ve gone to the Catholic church that Melinda goes to and I participate in. I’ve been very lucky, and therefore I owe it to try and reduce the inequity in the world. And that’s kind of a religious belief. I mean, it’s at least a moral belief.
“Moral systems,” yes. But the final use isn’t about isn’t about “morals.” Suspect he means “ethical beliefs.”
I volunteer with a lunch program our community holds during the summer time for kids who, during the school year, would qualify for free and reduced lunch. It is coordinated by a state agency and run by seven churches in our community. I’ve volunteered five times since it started three weeks ago; there’s a different group every day depending on the location you volunteer at, so each time, you may meet new people. Three times now, I’ve been asked which church I belong to, and when I say, “I don’t”, the looks I get are interesting. I don’t know why people think only church people volunteer for social programs.
I don’t think I would go so far to call myself an atheist or agnostic, but I definitely am not inclined to belong to a church institution. This seems to baffle people that I volunteer.
And now I’m off for today’s shift. I really, really hope someone does ask me again which church I belong to.
Well, to be fair, Jews only think they are right for themselves. Islam and Christianity are proselytizing religions, where their ideal is that everyone in the world will convert (or be converted).
I think many are aware that religious orgs, as institutions, often encourage parishioners. I don’t think they always realize how many schools, workplaces, social clubs, etc, also have a regular service component.
I’ve got a “faith,” but am not so much into the rituals and group worship thing, sort of pick and choose what I get involved with. Our church (really, DH’s denomination) offered many avenues to serve, is sort of a forerunner and primary driver in this area. It was and is my thing. My kids especially got it and still do.
The local branch of the very liberal denomination I was primarily raised in was very wishy washy about service which is why we decided to change to the other.
If "putting faith into action"sounds too faith-y, one can go with “putting your ethics into action.”
Gads, sorghum, hard to generalize ALL Christians are into proselytizing and converting. Unless you think the simple act of opening the doors and welcoming is an effort to “convert.” One of the things I do like about many Christian churches is when they don’t play roster games. “You’re here, that’s what matters” is something I hear. Not, “Is so and so your savior?”
Of course not all individuals of a proselytizing religion are into converting, personally. But surely you agree that Christians, generally, think that their beliefs are true for everybody.
No, I don’t. I think those who are so all-fired certain they have interpreted the Bible and various laws in the one true way feel their own beliefs are “true” for everybody. Not all denominations are so rigid.
