Duggars in the news.

Parent Cafe
141

@lookingforward-

I agree,One of the things that drives me nuts about many of the ‘saved’ crowd is they really think that their belief is a get out of jail free card, that it is easy, you sin, why, Jesus forgives you and that is that. They cry, say “I have sinned”, but then forget about the true repentance and penance part, and it isn’t saying a few Hail Mary’s either. It is why people like Ted Haggerty and Jimmy Swaggert and Jim Bakker ended up where they did, they thought ole Jesus was their buddy so anything they did was okay, and a few tears, a few whatevers, made it all right.

The Duggars are frauds and phonies, their faith is as shallow as dust on a stone, someone with real faith convictions would not trivialize what their son did, and certainly wouldn’t be the judgemental jerks they appear to be.

142

@kkarma was this for me or someone else? I didn’t write about that.


[QUOTE=""]
Mom2, To be fair, not all men who sexually abused younger girls when they were teens turn out to be pedophiles. Some are troubled kids, some are "just" acting out on sexual urges that are not directed toward children later in life when adult women are available.

My sexual abuser (he was 16 and I was 5 when it started) blames me for his becoming an alcoholic (if he hadn’t abused me, and later felt guilty, he wouldn’t have started drinking).
<<<

[/QUOTE]

Ok…you know that’s crazy. You can’t make sense out of nonsense. People who do horrible things and then twist/blame others are often mentally ill. No one believes him, do they???

I was assaulted when I was 3 by two seniors in high school (strangers). Thankfully, I only had to see them one time later. I can’t imagine anyone taking them seriously if they blamed me for whatever they became later.

I never watched this show, nor do I know much about the family except that they have a million kids and the dad was already financially successful before they got this show. Oh, and also that they’re some kind christian denomination, likely a very strict one…and I learned here on CC awhile back that older children were supposed to help take care of the younger ones.

While we all may think it’s crazy that the Duggar parents didn’t turn their son in to be arrested, I don’t think we should be shocked to realize that many families do not turn their kids into the police when they find out that their kids have done something very illegal and wrong.

143

Wow, Mom2, I’m so sorry this happened to you…I hope the perpetrators were punished. I agree with you that there are a lot of people (including here on CC) who would have a hard time turning their 15 year old in to the police for a crime like this. Many of you are asking about the family’s consideration of their girls–well, maybe they thought they were protecting them by keeping the story out of the public eye. Many rape victims are reluctant to seek charges against their attackers because of the unwanted attention it brings upon them (the victim). Perhaps the Duggar parents considered this, too? I am no apologist for this family or what they did (never watched the show), and we don’t know the whole story. But I think that the anti-Christian tone this thread is taking on is very unfortunate. There are self-righteous hypocrites from ALL walks of life–religious and otherwise.

144

Oy vey. This thread isn’t anti-Christian. It’s anti-self righteous, hypocritical abusers. That they happen to be Christian and use their religion as a shield is relevant for that reason.

And I agree it would be hard to turn in a 15 year old son. However, I sure as hell hope the average family would do more to protect their kids than this family has. But, they’ve made it clear more than once that women are second class citizens.

Frankly, I’m surprised they haven’t publicly blamed the girls. After all, they make it clear that they believe all women are temptresses.

145

There are gonna be a lot of shocked faces when they hear God saying “yeah, about that forgiveness thing - really bad translation there …”.

146

In many ways, this is just another SMH thread. We’re talking about a particular family and some examples like them.

I’ve watched the Duggars, sure. They’re a big family, trying to make do. They’re also locked in a bit of a time warp, which can be intriguing, when you have nothing better to do. To me, where the problem starts is that they made themselves public over a long time and reaped profits: money, travel, exposure, etc. I doubt they paid list price for those wedding gowns, am sure TLC underwrote trips and other sponsors kicked in for the free advertising, magazine articles, whatever. In itself, that’s not unusual, but:

They actively advocate a lifestyle and life philosophy that does include judging others. And they defend those judgments based on…their religion, which encourages an “us and them,” with a lot of the tolerance and forgiving going to their “us.” And not so much toward “them.” And they don’t do it quietly, in their own neighborhood. They use the platform and attention to go forth nationally and make the speeches, do the appearances, write the books, do the recordings, and on and on, not just pushing their own religion, but also actively campaigning against what we consider others’ rights. All while holding themselves up as examples. Where’s the humility? And/or the humanity? Those are important religious principles, too. Maybe among the biggies.

And then it turns out, their version of “right” is something they clearly can’t live by, themselves. So, we SMH. I think romani hit it when she said “self-righteous.” (And anyone else who said it.)

Ya know, we know some kids “play doctor.” Some of that is natural curiosity. Many wouldn’t head for the police or immediately send our kids off to a counselor. But this wasn’t something mutual, among roughly same-age kids. And it apparently did continue. Sleeping girls and/or otherwise unwilling, some of whom somehow apparently spoke up. The family solution was what we consider lame. For all we know, it left the girls adrift, told to conform to the principle of forgiveness, pray harder, sing louder- in effect, accept it. That’s more shame heaped on this.

Btw, at least two other sons went off to some reforming programs. The rumor mill seems to think this was for more ordinary “not towing the line.”

147

I absolutely agree. This thread has definitely taken an “anti-Christianity” turn that is disturbing and ugly, to say the least.

For example, in post 137 the poster adds on to the one previous to theirs by asserting that Christians glibly think that “all is forgiven, just like that” and use their faith as a sort of “get out of jail free” card.

Take the time, please, to truly learn about the faith before making such assumptions. There are many passages in Scripture that speak to the fact that all have sinned and will continue to do so in this life. That does NOT make it okay, nor does it mean that you quit striving to do your best to lead a good life.

I know for a fact that if I discovered that my 14 year old son had done something like this, my first thought would not be “turn him in to the police”. Of COURSE I would seek help for him and for my daughters, which the Duggars reportedly did. But I would also try to protect them from suffering permanent damage resulting from public shaming (which is of course now happening). In hindsight, I bet they are wishing they had done some things differently…aren’t we all??

I am NOT condoning anything Josh Duggar did. I hate that this whole thing happened. But please don’t go the cheap route and take this as an opportunity to bash Christianity. I am not a regular watcher of the TV Show about the Duggars, but when I have caught it, I have admired the family’s commitment to their beliefs…even when I do not agree with them. I hate this for that family…it truly breaks my heart. And reading many comments on this thread is like seeing wolves descend on a wounded animal.

148

The problem is when people use their religion to tell others, who believe differently, how to live their personal lives. And not by gently trying to help someone “see the light” but by irrevocably legislating against what they proclaim are sinful “lifestyles”.

And then we find these people leading “sinful” lifestyles themselves and hiding or lying about it. Over and over and over and over this happens.

149

As a believing Christian, I don’t see this thread as anti-Christian at all. Jesus was very vocal on many occasions about the sins of hypocrites in the church courtyard and also about those who pray loudly in public for men to see them and not for God.

Saintfan’s posts are a great example of these hypocrites. So many of those comments criticized our judging the Duggars - yet I’ll bet those same people who were so strongly against judging the Duggars are the first in line to condemn homosexuals.

I just wish more Christians actually read the Bible. It’s clear as day in the New Testament that those who profess to follow Jesus have MORE responsibility to follow in his footsteps, and that talking about how much you love God is not a way to buy indulgences.

PS - I nominate romani’s comment about a pitch for atheism in post 127 as one of the top comments of CC!

150

Sorry to disagree but I think even some posters here who I know are not religious seem to be holding back. It is not anti-Christianity to disagree with this family’s practices. No one said all Christians self-forgive. In fact, many, many take the concepts of fault and penance quite seriously and also seek to do “good” that serves others. And likewise for non-Christian religions.

I wrote 137 and I am quite respectful of various faiths, I’ll go up against anyone on that. I have seen first hand the personal and broader positives religiously grounded principles can bring to individuals, families and the communities.

It’s kind of odd to find tolerance being espoused with intolerant words. The Duggars are self-forgiving. They believe their path is the one true path, that they are special for that, assured, and allowed to be judgmental of others, others’ choices, rights and prospects. That’s a leap. Frankly, that’s speaking for Jesus, assuming one “knows” all there is to know. That always struck me as a bit presumptuous and, no offense intended, but somewhat disrespectful. Both are problematic, no?

151

Yep. This isn’t being anti-Christian. This is calling the Duggars out for using their Christian faith as a tool and using the Bible as a shield.

The Duggars aren’t religious. If so, they missed some key values of the church (humanity, humility, tolerance). Worse, they’re using religion to gain fame and money… These are not people who could convince me to embrace their religion, whatever it is because it doesn’t bear any resemblance to any church I know.

152

"But I cannot stand the hypocrisy of their being against LBGT yet protecting a child molester

I don’t see the connection."

The connection is quite simple, Romani. They preach that Teh Gayz will be the ruination of society while protecting someone who does something far more harmful to society. (Being gay does no harm to society, of course - it’s inconsequential and doesn’t affect anyone other than the people involved).

153

To those who say the parents sought help for Josh Duggan,

  1. Did you see what help they sought? It wasn't working with an expert in the issue. He did manual labor and got a stern talk.
  2. What about the daughters? There's no indication the parents sought help,for them.
  3. Have you see the curriculum they consulted? It's full of victim blaming messages.
154

^4. Plus they waited nine months after they learned of the abuse, until after he had molested at least one other daughter, to take any action other than a stern talking to.

155

This whole situation disgusts me. Who looked out for the victims? Protecting Josh seemed to be the priority.

I also don’t understand how Oprah’s staff could uncover this, but, in all these years, TLC couldn’t. I guess it comes down to money…Oprah didn’t need to put the Duggars on her show to get ratings, but TLC had a ratings bonanza with this family so didn’t want to find anything to change that.

156

TLC had to have known. I had not heard of these rumors before but just took a look at the discussion on the message board FreeJinger and there were posts in 2013 about rumors Josh was a molester. He must have known eventually his past would be found out. He’s looked unhealthy for some time now, big weight problem for a young guy, and just generally not well put together.
TLC has had some real cash cows go down before, John and Kate, Honey BooBoo, but this is the bread and butter of their network.

157

I’m curious to see what happens next.

Read that Josh and Anna had purchased a home in Arkansas a few months ago. Assuming they will move back now that he resigned his DC job.

Will the TLC show be completely cancelled? I would think so - due to loss of sponsors if nothing else.

No comments from the older Duggar sisters - who would be the victims - Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger. Jill and Jessa seem focused on being newlyweds and having babies. I’d love to see Jana get out of the Duggar house and have her own life.

Does not appear there are any legal ramifications for the family due to statute of limitations.

They pretty much live in a bubble with minimal if any television or Internet without supervision. Possible many of the older children have no idea this is even going on.

158

A good summary of the timeline and events:

http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2015/may/23/silence-led-to-no-case-for-duggar-20150/

159

rockvillemom, the older kids are very present on social media so I think the days of restricted internet usage are long gone.

160

In the 33-page police report, the separately interviewed girls reported that their favorite subject was spelling and least favorite was math. Interesting how they had the same answers.