Duke ($25k a year) vs Duke Kunshan in China ($25k a year) vs Tulsa (full ride + $24k stipend)?

It depends upon the individual as to how much, and in which manner, he or she is willing to grow.

Chinese immigrants’ knowledge of Chinese language and culture is not relevant to OP’s situation.

It is clear that OP is willing to leave his/her comfort zone to grow intellectually and culturally or OP would not have applied to, and would not be giving consideration to, Duke Kunshan.

A key factor may be whether or not OP has the option to attend Duke if Duke Kunshan does not work out after a year or two.

OP: How do you envision your future ? Do you desire a career similar to being a government or private sector diplomat or do you see yourself as a CS expert ? Or ???

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Fear is the opposite of education. A mature individual should know to abide by, and to respect, the rules, laws, and customs while in a foreign environment. This is an important part of one’s personal development.

Spending a semester or two abroad is a much different experience than earning an undergraduate degree abroad.

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It is not fear issue. It is more common sense…
Would you advise OP to go to Russia now and get connections there and learn Russian? Russians are amazing programmers btw…
Do you remember a college student who end up in North Korea and was returned 2 days before he was dead?

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I remember Otto. He was from Ohio.

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Russia & North Korea are not safe at this time.

I spent time as a college student in both the Soviet Union & in China (as well behind the Iron Curtain in Eastern Europe). When I was in Moscow, US/Russia relations were not good. (Was questioned by a senior KGB agent & I was always followed.) (Was among the first in China. Soldiers & some Chinese were less than welcoming.)

China is fine now for those who abide by the rules. Duke Kunshan is a great opportunity for OP if able to switch to Duke if unhappy after a year or two in China. Proficiency or fluency in Chinese (Mandarin dialect) with four year study in China is an incredible opportunity to build a career in the corporate or diplomatic world.

Fear is almost the antithesis of education.

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This disclaimer has been mentioned multiple times, but if it were the case, the main Duke campus would be full of former Duke Kunshan students. The maximum time the OP would be able to spend at Duke NC is a single semester.

Also, Duke Kunshan is not a Duke degree that happens to be obtained in China. It’s not a satellite campus like Temple Tokyo or SUNY Korea. It is its own entity with Chinese accreditation.

While I don’t doubt that Duke Kunshan is a coveted acceptance in Asia, I think there are very few students, either in Asia or in the US, who would pass up a chance at Duke in NC to pay the exact same net cost to attend Duke Kunshan. I don’t understand the argument that being outside of one’s comfort zone is something to pay a university for. There are many ways to be uncomfortable, and/or to live and work in China, that do not cost 100K over 4 years.

Speaking of things that do not cost 100K, Tulsa is free, and the international dual degree includes a full year abroad, including both study and work. And a US Duke degree, IMO, offers greater ROI for the same money compared to a Duke Kunshan degree. I remain unconvinced that Duke Kunshan wins over either of these.

If the OP’s primary interest were Chinese language and culture, and/or IR/diplomacy, than I would understand the push for immersion. But I have read nothing to indicate that this is the case, or that he aspires to be a diplomat. He’s a CS major. Who are we to decide that choosing this immersive experience in an often-problematic country should be his priority, and that the failure to do so would constitute giving in to fear? (And why are we now talking about sending him to… medical school?.. in Singapore??)

It’s absolutely fine for any poster to make the case of “In this situation I would choose Duke Kunshan, and this is why.” It’s valuable to hear a different perspective from what others have been saying. But the whole “take the biggest risk because therein lies the greatest reward” exhortation presupposes that risk guarantees reward, which is not how it works, kind of by definition.

In my opinion, if OP were the kind of student who should commit to the 4 years in China, and pay as much for it as for the main Duke campus, he would be excited for that opportunity above and beyond the others. I do not read that in his posts. What I read is, “I dunno, maybe I shouldn’t rule it out?” It’s a big leap from there to a commitment that does not have an escape hatch back to Duke-in-NC. Some leaps are worth taking, but not just because they’re leaps. Every option on the table includes challenge and personal growth, and only the OP can decide which kind of growth is most valuable for him.

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Have the OP and parents figured out whether $25k/year is actually affordable to them?

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OP: Have you examined the major areas of study available at Duke Kunshan ?

This may be of interest to you:

https://ugstudies.dukekunshan.edu.cn/majors/applied-mathematics-and-computational-sciences-with-tracks-in-computer-science-and-mathematics/

Data Science is another interdisciplinary major that may be of interest to you:

https://ugstudies.dukekunshan.edu.cn/data-science/

And if you want to become an MD, then a letter of interest and majoring in Data Science or Global Health may get you conditional admittance to Duke-NUS Medical School in Singapore:

https://duke-nus.edu.sg/admissions/pre-md-pathways/duke-kun-shan-duke-nus-medicine-pathway

OP: Based on you stated interests in interdisciplinary study, the above areas may be of interest. Appears that all of the Duke Kunshan majors are cross-disciplinary.

OP: As I noted in my first post, you have three outstanding life changing options to consider. Good luck. There is no wrong choice.

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China is very liberal compared to North Korea and unlike Russia doesn’t take Americans hostage. However it is a dictatorship.
It’s not a matter of fear, it’s not even a matter of respecting rules (that you have no way of knowing): you don’t send an 18 year old who knows nothing about the culture and its rules, nothing about the language, nothing about the restrictions you have to place on your actions and words when your phone&computer are under watch, nothing about the impact of AI equiped cameras&block “watchers” tracking your movements in the street, and when your doing or saying the wrong thing can put your friends in jeopardy.
If they’re interested in living in China, you equip them first with linguistic and cultural skills; preferably if they want to become bilingual, they enroll in a critical language flagship; they make Chinese friends on campus and practice, join clubs, complete cultural sensitivity modules. There may be additional elements if the student is a young woman, is Black, and/or is queer. THEN they go abroad, fully equipped, ready to learn without posing a risk to themselves or others.

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Hopefully, the OP will not base his/her decision on fear, but on opportunity and interest.

It is a big world, OP, be open-minded, not closed-minded.

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Yes, in that case they’ll go to Tulsa. No risk and huge benefits.
(If you mean “fear of living alone in a dictatorship where I know neither the rules nor the language”, hm, that would be very rational.)

Op has taken a tiny bit of Mandarin Chinese in 9th grade and has never been to China. Their pros are mostly of the “4 year summer camp” variety (bullet train, 3-day weekends, meeting international people, brand new buildings) with a sprinkling of “becoming bilingual”. The cons are much more significant bith in number and seriousness.

I’ll now focus on OP’s choices of Duke v. Tulsa :slight_smile:

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Completely agree with aquapt here. There is no easy way to transfer to Duke proper if DKU doesn’t work out. This situation played out during the pandemic when Duke initially hosted DKU students who weren’t allow back into China – when China opened back up, DKU students were required to go back even though by that point they were very attached to the Durham campus and wanted to stay. The only mechanism into Duke is the transfer process, which admits very few students each year and does not favor DKU students over others, here: ‘Durham as my home base’: A look at those transferring from DKU to Duke - The Chronicle

There have also been issues with the time that DKU students actually do get to spend in Durham – article just yesterday in the Duke paper here: ‘Second-class citizens’: DKU students at Duke express frustration with housing, social scene integration - The Chronicle

Unless OP has a strong long-standing interest in living and working in China after graduation, the choice is between Duke (if the finances can be made to work) and Tulsa. Look forward to hearing what the OP decides.

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Great post until I read the above sentence. That is just one possible career outcome, but certainly not the only reason that one should attend.

Regardless, I just hope that OP examines all 3 options and selects the option that is best suited for him/her. Three great opportunities, please share your decision with us.

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@Rhose cluld you please clarify some of the questions that have been asked. Can your family really afford $25,000 a year for you to attend college? Can they add the cost if travel etc to Duke Kunshan?

If it were my kid, and we could afford the $25,000, I would suggest Duke in NC over Kunshan. Or the full ride plus at Tulsa (where there are plenty of options to study for a semester or year at other colleges here).

I must have missed that this student had interest in becoming a doctor.

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OP’s post indicated that OP was open as to major area of study during both undergrad & graduate school. The Duke-NUS Medical School is an option for selected Duke Kunshan students who express an interest in the area via letter.

OP: Most important is whether or not you want to study & learn Chinese; if not, then eliminate Duke-Kunshan.

FWIW A relative has lived & worked in China for about 10 years (2 different stints separated by years working in other countries & continents for the same company). Heads a large division for a Fortune 100 company. Latest stint is 3 years. No problems or difficulties.

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@Rhose seems to have left the room. It’s May 1. I hope they have made their matriculation decision and I wish them good luck wherever they chose.

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Many universities have pushed the decision date to May 15 or June 1.
I hope @Rhose comes back and lets us know.

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Thank you everyone for the thoughts, each consideration you all mentioned was extremely helpful in making my decision. I’ve decided to attend Duke university :partying_face:

I feel like Duke Kunshan was more exciting for the novelty of it, but doesn’t really make sense for me in terms of career goals. I would probably not live in China/move back to the USA or move to Europe, so investing that much time into learning Chinese didn’t really make sense – it would also end up likely being the most expensive option. I agree that it would be a great opportunity to branch out and explore and I would absolutely love to, but it might just be too much of a wild card (especially four years straight out of high school haha).

Between Duke and Tulsa, it was extremely difficult to choose – however, after talking with my parents, we decided that we could feasibly do Duke. My parents say they can most likely pay a little over half of the cost, and I’ve been working and will continue to work to cover personal expenses. It’s also only $25k for full COA, which, especially in comparison to a lot of schools that charge like $60k per semester, is a great deal (especially at a school like Duke). I may have to take out student loans, but especially if I do CS at Duke, I’ll have a starting salary of like $90k. The name recognition has also already helped me, haha – I expressed interest in doing paid research at a local university this summer, and as soon as I mentioned I was going to Duke, the professor became very interested in having me. I feel like the ROI of Duke and alumni network are worth it.

Plus, I think I will enjoy the campus and my time at Duke better. I love being surrounded by diverse people who are passionate about their interests and academics, and I felt like there was a strong culture for it at Duke. Duke’s campus culture fits my life better, especially as a queer woman. Also, the amenities were generally much better (I’m a big foodie haha) and I can’t stand freezing weather, so Duke seemed perfect in that regard. Tulsa is a fantastic option and the full ride was extremely generous, however, I feel like one of the biggest/only things that really drew me in was the CS + Spanish double degree and study abroad. The program is basically perfect, and lots of people have been successful with it. However, I am very unsure of my major, so if I decided to switch majors from engineering/CS or something, I would not be able to do the program and would have to dig deeper into Tulsa, vs Duke which has amazing programs in every single aspect. I can also always travel after college. There are also just more programs and opportunities at Duke for exploration and customization. There’s also a lot of focus on a global perspective/doing good at Duke – tons of programs focus on helping people in terms of climate change, healthcare, education, etc, which really nicely aligns with my goals and what I want to do with computer science or a different major. The connections I make would be invaluable if I wanted to do something entrepreneurial or otherwise too.

Overall (despite a little cringing internally from the cost haha) I’m really happy with my decision and can’t wait to go to Duke in the fall. Thank you all again!! :blue_heart: :white_heart:

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Great decision and congratulations! Cheapest isn’t always best for everyone. Take full advantage of all that Duke has to offer and never look back.

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Thank you!!!

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