I assume you believe that gays, transgenders, and women have a valid argument when they say the same thing?
Those who need a definition of toxic masculinity: I hope you’re watching TV tonight. We’re being treated a vivid example.
Toxic masculinity, at least at my very liberal - more liberal than Duke- university, is thought to mean how socially constructed attitudes ascribed to males, i.e. emotional indifference, sexually aggressive, etc. deleteriously affects males. I have somewhat more radical views than the liberal/third wavers who tend to be fans of this kind of dialogue, but I see no problem with a group of men, choosing to invest time and emotional labour, into an optional course that they think will better society.
Toxic masculinity, at least in recent dialogue, has been discussed in association with shootings, sexual assault, guilt from male survivors, and so forth. https://mic.com/articles/144943/in-just-3-minutes-jamil-smith-nails-how-toxic-masculinity-fuels-rape-culture
I highly doubt any man at my campus will find the notion of ‘toxic masculinity’ offensive, given that it’s a critique of a general social construct, and not of men themselves. They might think it’s dumb and not participate, but that’s up to them. A group on my campus recently hosted discussion about ‘Anti-blackness in the South Asian Diaspora’; again, it was optional and open to whomever wanted to attend. From all accounts, it was a good discussion, and I’m sure it would’ve been controversial if some more right wing Indian groups heard of it.
There is a real problem with toxic masculinity. However, the moment the solution is portrayed as men need to change to eradicate problems facing women due to male behavior, the resistance becomes very high. The right, in my mind, approach is to portray the problem as one affecting males, and the solution as one requiring men to change to eradicate problems facing men. Taking out the charged language of “rape culture” (which even as a blue to the core liberal I find very little hard evidence for, as culture is something that needs to be widespread and in the majority) would tremendously help in reaching out to men and convincing them to change.
Start with violence and aggression. That’s the root of all evil. Warrior culture was for the middle ages. Intellectual culture should be the norm in the modern times. If that switch is successfully made, I believe the rest will fall into place.
Where’d you get this idea? It’s an unusual one that I can’t imagine any actual sociologists would support. There are many cultures, after all–including sub- and counter-cultures–and we all live at various intersections among them.
They don’t call it rape sub-culture, now do they? If they did, then it would also indicate that it is limited to a minority and is not a wide spread issue. Even after the DCL, the amount of complaints in college campuses have been minuscule. They call it culture, which is a folly, as it is not widespread (unless you expand it to include definitions far away from the legal definition of rape) as it immediately puts all men, including liberal, well-meaning ones on the defensive.
Presentation matters if you want to bring on social change. Personally, I do want the social change. Hence my suggestion is for using different language which will not cause an immediate negative reaction in males, especially teens and 20-something males. To start by telling them that they are all likely rapists and part of a rape culture is not very influential (not to mention being rather inaccurate) and does the movement more harm than good. JMHO.
It doesn’t put me on the defensive.
If you support social change, then maybe it behooves you to consider the aims and substance of the movement rather than fixating on quibbling about tone and diction.
Many people believe that there is a very widespread culture that contributes to the very widespread problem of rape and sexual assault.
“If you support social change, then maybe it behooves you to consider the aims and substance of the movement rather than fixating on quibbling about tone and diction.”
Tone and diction matter in the real world. People who ignore it do so at their own risk of being less influential.
“Many people believe that there is a very widespread culture that contributes to the very widespread problem of rape and sexual assault.”
And that is their privilege. The numbers don’t back it up.
Which numbers are these?
Marvin, I am not going to provide numbers to disprove your claim that “there is a very widespread culture that contributes to the very widespread problem of rape and sexual assault.”
You should provide numbers to substantiate your claim.
Sure, @1Wife1Kid – [here ya go](Victims of Sexual Violence: Statistics | RAINN)!
Just one tidbit to whet your appetite:
And [here are some more stats](50 Actual Facts About Rape | HuffPost Women)!
Including this one:
Thanks Marvin. RAINN (as you linked) claims there are the 288,000 cases of rape and sexual assault each year in the USA for women 12 and older. There are 100M+ such women in the USA, so we are talking an incidence rate of about 0.3%.
By comparison, about 4.5M died or were injured in traffic accidents in 2015. Out of a population of about 320M, that’s about 1.4% incidence rate. We do not talk of a traffic accident culture in the USA, however.
You may not think that 1 out of 300 women every year experiencing rape or sexual assault is a significant incidence, but I do. It’s horrifying and we should do better.
As for traffic accidents, well, every city in America has an entire department dedicated to road and traffic planning and automobiles are extremely heavily regulated by the government, with increasing safety demands every year. More relevantly, kids have to take drivers’ education courses to help make the roads safer. If it helps, think of the seminar in question as a sort of “drivers’ ed” for young men.
Marvin, Of course, 0.3% incidence is still a serious matter which is why police departments have special branches to handle cases of rape and sexual assault, there are stringent rules in the law books to punish the guilty, and kids are taught in sex ed right in middle and high school that there should be no sex without consent. (If we are drawing parallels to traffic accidents that is.) It’s not like society is not serious about stopping rape and sexual violence.
But it makes no sense to say that there is a rape culture as culture takes more than 0.3% incidence. Which is what we were talking about, but now you have changed the topic to whether it is a serious matter. Of course it’s a serious matter. I never said that it isn’t. I merely said that there is no rape culture. If you disagree, then you must also believe that there is a traffic accident culture with a lot of toxic drivers roaming the streets of USA, which would be silly.
Look, I am a liberal, and I am a big champion of consent and respect for women. That the word rape culture makes even me shake my head means that it is absolutely not influential in changing minds. I also believe that toxic masculinity is real, and it hurts men FAR more than it hurts women. Just look at our jails and man on man violence both outside, which leads to it, and inside, which traumatizes men with a 4.5% incidence of rape.
So I think this class will do a lot of good for those that take it. But I shake my head at the mass hysteria of rape “culture”. There is no such culture in the USA. There are rapists, individual rapists. All the histrionics about a rape culture succeeds in doing is turn off perfectly good men and put them on the defensive. Which is exactly why the traffic controllers don’t talk about toxic drivers when they encourage the public to drive safely.
Words matter.
Anyway, I am done on rape culture. Please feel free to have the last word.
You may be interested in another data point from one of the links I posted earlier:
That stat suggests to me that we aren’t taking rape and sexual assault as seriously as we should and that we have a culture that forgives rape. The fact that a presidential candidate has been recorded as admitting to sexual assault and yet still polls at 43% further convinces me.
Then I’m unsure why you’re so adamantly opposing your own side. I might take your tone arguments more seriously if you had skin in the game, if you yourself were a consent activist or a participant in an organization working against toxic masculinity.
Most men are unaware of rape culture. Nice guys just don’t think that way, and bad guys think they are normal (women like it rough).
Women, the majority of the population, are all aware of rape culture: they live in it. Just ask women if they take keys out of their bags before they get to the car. Ask if they avoid walking after dark. Ask if they use the buddy system when they go out in the evening. Ask if they pick apartments (primarily) for security, dress so they can run if attacked, ask men to escort them, carry mace, etc.
In my opinion, if there’s a toxic culture on campus, it’s the drinking culture. Far too many sexual assault incidents arise from intoxication. Placing the emphasis on combating drunkenness does not single out one gender over the other as needing to change. Both women and men need to stop getting wasted.
This is nothing new, and constitutes no change in “culture.” Our country has already elected for two terms a man from the other side of the aisle accused of countless sexual improprieties, including assault–sins his own wife helped cover up–and one of our most popular entertainers was a terrible sexual predator.
@TheGFG drinking culture is a problem as well, but let’s not pretend that alcohol is the reason why assault happens - lets not blame the victims. Why don’t we teach college students to not assault other people rather than blame alcohol?
Not all assaults happen under the influence of alcohol, and drinking is not an excuse for assaulting someone. Addressing alcohol as a method of addressing sexual assault implicitly places blame on victims and grants implicit forgiveness to offenders.
Let’s leave the political figures out of this.