It’s not blaming victims to suggest that it’s unwise to get blackout drunk in a frat house. It’s empowering to women to tell them there are steps they can take to ensure they maintain control over their lives and reduce their risk of being victimized. Similarly, it’s empowering to young men to encourage them to stay sober so they can exercise good judgment in sexual matters. The only way this approach is pointless is if you believe young men are fundamentally “toxic” and at any given moment will lapse into predation.
Sadly, some people have convinced themselves that is true. There is no point in arguing with them.
Forget sexual assault and rape, blacking out is just plain harmful. Men and women both shouldn’t drink so much as to black out. This has nothing to do with victim blaming. This is about being a parent and telling your kid - male or female - that if they are blacking out then they are a loser and a failure.
And as a parent of children of both genders, I would absolutely hold either gender responsible (substitute the word “blame” if you want) if they got themselves too drunk to be fully aware of what they were doing or what was being done to them to them. Obviously, being sober as a woman doesn’t guarantee safety from sexual assault, but at least you’d be conscious enough to fight and scream for help rather than lying comatose behind a dumpster. Becoming extremely intoxicated practically ensures danger of one kind or another–whether if be from fatally choking on your own vomit; dying of alcohol poisoning; losing your balance and falling down stairs or off a balcony; tumbling into a canal or river and drowning / dying of exposure; or freezing to death because you collapsed in a drunken stupor outside in the January.
Right, of course. And I assume you’d “hold [them] responsible” for exactly what it was they did–in this case, the woman should be held responsible for getting drunk and the man should be held responsible for getting drunk and for committing rape. That’s what you meant, right?
(I’d also suggest that the woman who made the poor choice of getting too drunk, a choice that put her in a position to more easily be raped, has already suffered enough for that decision: she’s been raped, after all.)
Sure. If it is actually rape, like the Brock Turner case. But not if it is both were drunk, sex happened, and she regrets it in the morning.
Again, that statistic I shared earlier:
According to all empirical research, false rape accusations are vanishingly rare, and our continued suspicions that women are “faking rape” are unfounded.
(And are you suggesting that women who are drunk are capable of consent? Because that’s at odds with sexual assault policies and even laws…)
Well if we uniformly say that drunk people are not capable of consent, how much jail time do you recommend for the woman having sex with a drunk man?
I’m not in the business of sentencing, for the best, for the best. But I think it’s a good idea not to have sex with someone who can’t give consent, and I think it’s reasonable that an intoxicated person can’t properly give consent. I haven’t heard of too many instances of female-on-male date rape, although when they occur, I think the rapist should be punished appropriately, @hebegebe . Do you disagree?
Marvin, Do you agree that when a woman has sex with a man who is drunk that’s rape?
I think that’s up to the man, not me, to decide, @1Wife1Kid . I certainly think it can be, though, yeah.
Marvin, Do you agree that when a man has sex with a woman who is drunk that’s rape?
I think that’s up to the woman, not me, to decide, @1Wife1Kid . I certainly think it can be, though, yeah.
Actually Marvin, you are wrong on both counts, as legally speaking both are clear cases of rape.
Now, how many cases do you think happens each year of a drunk man and woman having sex?
And how many women do you think are taught that if they have sex with a drunk man they are committing rape?
If they show up in a court of law then it’s safe to assume one of the people involved considered it rape. So like I said, it’s up to them, not me, to decide.
As for your questions:
- I have no idea
- Sexual consent education includes this, and it’s nice to see that you agree with me that there should be more sexual consent education.
It is a dangerous path if something is rape if someone considers it to be rape, not based on some objective standard and criteria.
I doubt there is any college or university that uses the term “rape” in their conduct codes. Nonconsenual sex or sexual midconduct most likely maybe even sexual assault…rape is a criminal term and each state has it’s own definitions and word usage.
“If they show up in a court of law then it’s safe to assume one of the people involved considered it rape. So like I said, it’s up to them, not me, to decide.”
Marvin, I understand that you are having a hard time openly saying that a woman who has sex with a drunk man has committed rape. This is precisely my point. The paranoia around rape culture is such that normal actions need to be redefined as rape. Men and women, boyfriends and girlfriends, husbands and wives, and in some cases (so I am told) cousins and cousins, get drunk and have sex all the time. It’s legally rape, but no one reports it as they know that there was no intent to rape and no court will convict based on just that. But if the woman (and why is it almost always the woman?) regrets having sex the next day then it is suddenly rape. Still, a court will not convict based on that, so we have the college tribunals where regret sex is being tried as rape.
This turns off even blue to the core liberals such as myself. No, not everyone follows the party line blindly, especially when that party line is written by a very, very tiny but vocal minority who doesn’t care for facts, like 0.3% of women being raped or sexually assaulted each year somehow translating to a rape culture.