Hi, My daughter got into these three schools as her top choices, as a parent I’m leaning towards Duke and Emory because I like bigger campus and warm weather but she likes Haverford, I know it is a great school but I felt that LACs tend to send students to graduate schools rather than job market. Am I wrong? Any suggestions?
Haverford is an exceptional college and I am 100% certain its graduates go into fantastic jobs, just as students do at the other schools you mentioned. A kid who was good enough to get into those amazing schools isn’t going to have to worry about doing well in life. And what’s wrong with wanting to go to grad school? It’s yiur D going to college, and if you are happy to pay, I would let her decide. There is no way she will get anything but a great experience there.
When I saw this thread title, I said, Haverford for sure! Anyway, I agree 100% with what @Lindagaf says. Haverford is one of the top LACs in the country, and will lead to great opportunities.
Recent Duke graduates earn $21,000 more than recent Haverford graduates.
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?198419-Duke-University
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?212911-Haverford-College
Duke is 6th on the Wall Street Journal’s list of best feeder schools. Haverford is 18th.
http://hubpages.com/education/Wall-Street-Journal-College-Rankings-The-Full-List-and-Rating-Criteria
“Feeder schools” is only relevant if a student wants one of those particular careers. If not, who cares?
All are solid schools academically. All will serve any student well in terms of employment opportunities post graduation.
The 3 schools have very different vibes. Haverford has an intellectual yet cooperative student body. It’s Quaker roots and honor code make for a unique atmosphere for learning with a great amount of respect between faculty and students as well as a lot more student governance than you’ll find at most colleges, including Emory and Duke. Its small size allows for close interactions with faculty and numerous research opportunities.
I’d let your daughter decide which school is the best fit for her. She’ll do well at any of the 3 but feeling like a school is a good fit for her can enhance her experience.
^ How do you know that cattiger’s daughter is not interested in one of those careers?
^ Was referring to @Pizzagirl
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Caveat:
If she wants to work in Finance on Wall Street, Duke is probably the best choice.
Otherwise, look at fit:
- Financial (amt of debt at graduation)
- Campus size/population
- Academic vibe/fit
- Setting/environment
- Weather
- Culture
Duke and Emory are well-known elite private universities, two of the best in the South. Both offer lots of quality programs and internship/research opportunities. Emory is in Atlanta and Duke is in Durham, a city not far from Raleigh. Duke, of course, also has D1 athletics and a basketball coach whose name is hard to spell.
And then there’s little Haverford. Aside from the usual LAC/U differences, Haverford also benefits from its membership in the Quaker Consortium.
Haverford students are allowed to take classes at nearby Bryn Mawr, Swarthmore, and the University of Pennsylvania. This adds breadth to Haverford’s course offerings. It also gives Haverford students the opportunity to experience three other great campuses and hobnob/network with a greater array of students and faculty.
All three are fine schools. I think that the choice should be made based on fit. If possible, you guys should visit all three. Hopefully one will feel like home.
Before drawing strong conclusions from the College Scorecard earnings figures, one should consider possible confounding factors. For example,
- About 15% of Duke students major in engineering, which has especially good salary prospects. Haverford has no engineering departments.
- Haverford alumni have a relatively high rate of earned doctorates. By my calculations (based on NSF data) Haverford generates about 141 PhDs per thousand alumni v. Duke's 91 (assuming the 10-year alumni population is about 10X the current student enrollment per class). This may depress Haverford's average earnings for the first 10 years after graduation (which is the period College Scorecard measures).
A recent Brookings study suggests that “alumni salary, when taken alone, is a biased and imprecise measure of the quality of a college, or even its economic value”. Salary outcomes may have more to do with characteristics of the students than with the quality of the college. For a more reliable comparison, we’d need to disaggregate the data then compare the earnings only of students with similar characteristics and career choices.
http://www.brookings.edu/research/reports2/2015/10/29-earnings-data-college-scorecard-rothwell
I always dislike those figures that talk about X College grads earning so much more than Y College grads. The numbers skew when there are a lot of grads in high paying jobs such as banking. It isn’t because a History grad at Haverford is going to earn less than a History Grad at Duke.
^^ This shows that mere numbers, be it salary or ranking or % students getting PhDs can give you ‘sound bytes’ of information but it no way tells you the full story. The numbers may not even tell the real story. In the above post, absolutely Duke will have a higher starting salary due to the engineering school. Similarly, Haverford may have the higher number of PhDs because it doesn’t have an engineering school. BUT Haverford students may have comparable salaries to Duke for the same majors and industries and Duke students are more than qualified for graduate programs. It simply is not enough to see a few numbers and draw simple conclusions.
This is where you and your daughter sit down and discuss the pros and cons of each school. You get to provide your opinions, worries, ideas and preferences. She gets to listen. But she also gets to provide her opinions, worries, ideas and preferences and you get to listen.
I would say, if you are fine with the costs of each college and both of you are fine with the distance from home, have her visit all three choices. Then let her choose. Three terrific schools. No wrong choices here.
Both schools offer similar financial aid so paying for it is not an issue. My concerns are haverford is too small and the weather is not good. I loved the Duke campus and the weather there.
Thanks.
It’s so true what you said, her feeling will make a great fit. Thanks.
Sorry, I didn’t make it clear. My daughter is not interested in pre-med, pre-law or business. Her interests are in humanity majors. And that’s why we kind of don’t want to go to Emory even though we love Atlanta.
Haverford is very small even by LAC standards. But if your D is comfortable with that, then it shouldn’t be an issue. I wouldn’t say the weather is bad there. It’s 4 season weather. Some kids know they want a LAC. If that describes your D, then let her go to Haverford
One thing to think about re. Haverford & weather: they will miss 4-5 weeks of winter weather since they’re home for winter break. It made the cold a ton more tolerable for my daughter. And it’s not like she’s going to the arctic circle, either! I’d let her make the call – they’re all great choices, and she’s the one who has to live with them!
We’ve visited Duke and Emory twice( last year and this year after accepted) and will visit haverford this Sunday. Both Duke and Emory have nice campus but my daughter feels both are too big. Especially she didn’t like Duke freshmen have to live in east campus but take class at west campus.
You are right, fitting is more important here.
Thank you.
If she’s a humanities major and she likes Haverford the best - I think there’s your answer. I just visited Hav with my son, and he was very impressed. He was a little astonished that the student he ate lunch with left his wallet on the cafeteria table to save their spot. Also he was impressed by the consortium. Personally, I’m intrigued by the Quaker thing.
After visiting these schools on trips with my son and daughter and knowing alumni from many of them I feel a more pre-professional vibe from Duke and Emory much like Hopkins and Wash U.; whereas, I felt a more intellectual/academic vibe from Haverford much like Brown U. where my daughter is. But I’m sure there is a spectrum of both types of students at all these schools; that was just my personal impression.
Best of luck with her choice!
@arwarw,
Yes, my D actually mentioned that part of the reason she like haverford is the honors code( students don’t have to worry about stuff being stolen) this won’t happen in large U.
My daughter went to Brown for summer camp and we both liked there except the city so we didn’t try Brown.
Thanks.