My guess is, not having a business school, that Haverford doesn’t attract the type of students that live and breathe for consulting jobs. It has plenty of grads successfully pursuing jobs on Wall Street and in the financial services and has a great economics dept. Since the OP’s daughter is looking to major in the humanities, not sure why @NerdyChica continues to focus on a small sliver of the American job market. We get it, you go to Duke and you’re proud of it and its a grand place, but so are others schools with different characteristics.
I’m just stating facts. Don’t shoot the messenger. This poster may or may not care about job placement. Other students might find the information helpful.
The parent who is posting on behalf of her daughter clearly cares about placement. You can try to shout me down but I will not let you badger her into making a bad decision.
“I will not let you badger her into making a bad decision”
The fact that you can’t be balanced enough to realize that there are multiple good decisions with multiple good outcomes instead of viewing any choice but Duke as “a bad decision”, does not give your voice weight IMO, let alone stating that others are badgering the OP. Hope that’s not the critical thinking they are teaching at Duke.
No one hear is claiming that Duke isn’t a strong school providing a solid education. However, the OP has a daughter who has stated a preference for Haverford. What we are doing is expressing experiences and beliefs that the college preferred by the student will provide both a strong education and good career prospects along with a preferred fit. I don’t see how that can be seen as badgering.
Hford students do all kinds of amazing things, the OP really should not worry about job placement opportunities.
To get a sense of the type of community Hford is, and the type of person who comes out of there, the OP might look up alum Howard Lutnick and the financial firm Cantor. An incredible story that speaks volumes about the kind of place Haverford is, and the kind of loyalty and dedication students have to the community.
Who cares about
"No students at McKinsey, Bain or BCG.
None at Morgan Stanley, Apple, Facebook, Oliver Wyman, Deloitte, GE, Tesla, Microsoft, "?
Just as it is a mistake to focus on eight schools as the only elite schools, it is a mistake to focus on 10,12 companies as the “job market”. Did the OP even mention Wall Street? I see the OP mentioned climate, size and jobs but also said the child is not interested in business.
The child has acceptances to three good schools. I can see compelling reasons to attend each of the three.
"The fact that you can’t be balanced enough to realize that there are multiple good decisions with multiple good outcomes instead of viewing any choice but Duke as “a bad decision”, does not give your voice weight IMO, let alone stating that others are badgering the OP. "
Bingo.
IMHO very very different vibes at Haverford and Duke, Haverford is a top pick for my son and he is very seriously considering attending, toured Duke and chose not to apply.
Keep in mind Duke graduates 5 times the number of undergraduates as Haverford, so,of course, for one graduating class at Haverford you’re not gong to find the breadth of corporate bling that may have been hiring Duke’s undergraduate and graduate students for the past X years. But I think the depth is there.
What might be more helpful to the OP is Duke’s most recent post graduate data by undergrad major. Is it readily available?
For what it’s worth, to read the whole story about Howard Lutnick, you would have to google his name with Haverdord and Cantor.
If I’m allowed to post, here is one article:
Haveford Class of '15 “Most Popular Employers”
I see some Wall Street-ey names there. For thos who care, which seems like not the OP, maybe only @NerdyChica
Epic Systems Corp
Fullbright
National Institutes of Health ( NIH )
University of Pennsylvania
Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia
Moody’s Analytics
Ernst & Young LLP
Goldman Sachs
Haverford College
Mount Sinai Hospital
Teach for America
The AIDS Institute
Amazon.com
Bank of America Merrill Lynch
Brown Brothers Harriman & Co.
Maybe something to consider with Duke in NC vs Hford in PA or Emory in GA:
http://www.wral.com/woodson-ncsu-losing-business-because-of-hb2/15642270/
^^ from the above article
[quote]
The Board of Governors was supposed to hold its monthly meeting at UNC-Asheville, but the potential for large student protests there forced officials to move it to Chapel Hill.
That’s bad. The BOG had to leave the “Cesspool of Sin” for the “State Zoo”
There’s no question in my mind that Duke is a more career-oriented school than Haverford and does more to set the students up in jobs.
But that wouldn’t give me any hesitation in supporting a student’s choice of Haverford over Duke.
Problem with Duke/Emory vs Haverford is (again talking pure financial as a parent) is almost same sticker price. If these niche LAC need to survive and attract brightest mind then they have to reduce their tuition cost substantially to make them attractive.
I do agree there is no right and wrong answer duke/emory vs Haverford however given the same price I’ll go with Duke or Emory hands down.
Haverford is one of the most prestigious, respected LACs in the country. It’s already attractive to many excellent students.
There are a number of tuition-dependent, second-rate institutions of higher ed in this country, some small colleges, some larger private comprehensive universities, for which this may be true. I don’t think Haverford is one of them.
Haverford is hardly a “niche” LAC unless you think that every LAC is a “niche.” It has no problem attracting students “with brightest minds.” There is a certain kind of excellent student who would find Duke’s fratty, jocky alpha careerist vibe unpalatable and uninspiring. It’s a mistake to confuse one’s own educational tastes and values with everyone else’s.
For D2 we just ran the NPC’s and Haverford would offer better financial aid than either Penn or Brown. I am sure HYPS are always going to be the best as far as FA goes, but Haverford is in the ballpark for us
“If these niche LAC need to survive and attract brightest mind then they have to reduce their tuition cost substantially to make them attractive.”
Apparently they don’t have to. They’re turning away a lot of paying customers.
While they are all great schools, Haverford has a unique and special culture, due in part to its Quaker heritage and honor code. If your daughter visits and feels at home there, I would support her choice. It’s filled with bright, intellectually minded students and provides a fantastic education. I’ve met several recent graduates (class of 2015) and these bright, articulate young adults were all gainfully employed.
Haverford’s acceptance rate is 24.6%, so it gets 4x more applicants than it can take. I think it’s doing fine, @LisaNCState