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YES!!! <em>and</em> we can include DukeEgr, even though he’s not a mom. At least he LISTENS to his!!! :p</p>
<p>Yep, DE93, I’m also looking forward to proudinnj’s sons being at Duke!! They know a great thing when they see it! :D</p>
<p>~b.</p>
<p>ID. You just don’t give up… For the last time,this was a Spring Break party. It could have been any campus USA. The strippers came willingly to make money. They were not forced to attend this party! At least one of the strippers was drunk and /or stoned, when she arrived at her job site. The students at the party were disgusted at her behavior and condition, and told her to leave. </p>
<p>No one has ever condoned underaged drinking, either at Duke or at any campus. </p>
<p>The fact that a student is white and an athlete does not automatically mean that he is prone to racist or rapist behavior, no matter how many times you post such nonsense. </p>
<p>Much of the behavior you allude to is heresay. A study was conducted by the university that demonstrated that this particular group had never exhibited any racist tendencies. </p>
<p>Even if a (single publicity seeking) neighbor supposedly heard the famous racial slur, did he also hear that the strippers may have initially provoked and initiated this so called “racially charged” atmosphere by refering to these “white boys” and attemting to emasculate them by making disgusting comments about the size of certain anatomical male parts?</p>
<p>Oh wait, the racially charged scene is totally one-sided. Come on, be real.</p>
<p>I also chuckled when I read the quote from ID. “That is a separate issue from the one the Attorney General was discussing, the apparently false charge of rape.”</p>
<p>“Apparently” false charge? I think the Attorney General was pretty clear that NO rape took place. He went out on an unprecedented ledge to state loudly and clearly to the world that these young men were INNOCENT.</p>
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<p>I am being real. If my son or daughter ended up in a situation where somebody is calling 911 over racial epithets, I’m going to say, “Something went wrong here. What can we learn from this situation to avoid it in the future…”</p>
<p>Two-sided? One-sided? What difference does it make? It’s still a situation that you would like to avoid. Just like if you find yourself in crowded bar when somebody yells, “he’s got a gun!”…it really doesn’t matter if you are involved. It’s a situation you’d rather not be in.</p>
<p>^ Wouldn’t you check the credibility of the caller? The caller who changed her story, and was a convicted criminal… The caller who admitted that she should benefit financially from an incident that never occurred? </p>
<p>Oh wait, I guess none of that matters?</p>
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<p>Right. That’s what I said. Is it not apparent to you that no rape took place? It is apparent to me that the charge was false.</p>
<p>The Ag was addressing the actual charges that were filed - not the assumed behavior at the party - so as to the charges - the boys were found innocent - end of that part of the story. Nothing racially charged was addressed during the press conference - just the remaining charges - which are now dropped for lack of evidence/findings.</p>
<p>Of the ‘‘88’’ - havng a differene of opinion and actions - just look at the postings that we all read here on this subject - their negative actions were no different than some of what we all saw here - there will always be a portion of the population that thinks differently - they had their right - just as those of us who did not agree. They will fade into the woodwork and life will move on - for them and for us as well.</p>
<p>Sorry ID. I thought you were using the word “apparently” as a qualifier. (as a substitute for the term “alleged”). Like maybe it was apparent to some people, but not you. ;)</p>
<p>I am absolutely certain that no rape took place, and that the false accusation is absolutely false.</p>
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<p>The ugliness of the situation in the driveway that night is not really in dispute. We have the contemporaneous 911 call corraborated by the accounts of the neighbor. I believe that members of the Duke lacrosse team have acknowledged that the party was a mistake. Certainly, Duke’s administration has. They fired the coach.</p>
<p>It is apparent to me, and almost certainly to the members of the team and their parents, that they put themselves in a bad situation that night, with significant risk exposure to false charges. I seriously doubt that any of those students or their parents are recommending that they host another party with strippers.</p>
<p>One more thing to clear up from IDads earlier post, the lacrosse guys didn’t “hire black strippers” instead, the truth is that they hired “white” strippers and instead were sent the infamous two. </p>
<p>I believe that the false assertion that they hired “black strippers” has added to the racially charged atmosphere - somehow confirming many of the extremists feelings that white men will always objectify and take advantage of black women, and that they always have throughout history.</p>
<p>Just to set the story straight…</p>
<p>I do agree though that they put themselves in a dangerous and potentially damaging situation, but they have admitted and apologized repeatedly for it. Can we accept their apology yet??? Certainly anything that was done does not in any way earn the 395 days of torture that they have endured, does it?</p>
<p>Well…actually - in Seligmann’s case at least, it appears he actually did nothing more than ARRIVE at a party. It appears that Seligmann did what every single one of “our” children have been advised to do if they should find themselves in circumstances that are wrong - he LEFT. He got on the phone, called a taxi, grabbed his buddy, left asap, and went back to his dorm (stopping along the way for food). </p>
<p>That didn’t protect him from all that followed.</p>
<p>Not to mention the charges against Finnerty in DC that were escelated because of his so-called charges against him in NC. These guys really need to make every attempt to move on and hopefully find some real happiness and success in their lives - even tho Duke has offered their return- I certainly hope they they consider their other options. These 3 will always have that veil over them - but I really bet that one of them will end up as a great lawyer down the road :)</p>
<p>They will all be on 60 Minutes (CBS) this Sunday, April 15 at 7:00pm.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t it be nice if the accuser agreed to an interview?</p>
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<p>Jeepmom, I got that impression too from listening to them speak yesterday. They seem to have really learned that there are some serious inequalities in the legal system and maybe they can make a difference.</p>
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<p>Absolutely true… When I spoke of the hiring, I meant whoever on the team that made the original call to the “escort” service. Seligmann and Finnerty were only invitees to the party, not planners, and Seligmann left really early on, and was calling his girlfriend while leaving. Hardly the actions of a “guilty womanizer”. He was probably telling her how lame the party was and that he couldn’t believe he had stayed as long as he did. </p>
<p>That’s the kind of thing my dh has said when calling after a “stag party” ;)</p>
<p>Oh wait! Does admitting that my h has attended stag parties make him a meatheaded hooligan? Yikes, I’ve been married to him for 21 years! I must be “ignorant” like the Duke women’s lax team for defending and standing by him!</p>
<p>^ Dearest ag54, If your husband is a white athlete (ok, somewhat athletic), and has an occasional drink, you better Run now. I just hope for your sake he was never in a fraternity or wore a helmet if he ever played a sport. You poor poor woman. How could you not know? :o</p>
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Consequences the likes of this could NEVER have been forseen. It was truly nightmarish, considering all of the similar behavior from kids all over the country that has never culminated in such a devastating set of events. </p>
<p>Just saw on Fox that Nifong has “apologized” to the LAX players. Can anyone say too little, too late? :(</p>
<p>Apologies don’t count for *****. Consider Imus.</p>
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<p>Actually, the behavior of organized groups causes problems at campuses across the country on a regular basis. While this developed into a particularly large problem, I don’t know if it’s any worse than a hazing death.</p>
<p>I think the lesson for colleges, coaches, and other school officials is that they aren’t doing their kids any favors by allowing them to put themselves in high-risk situations.</p>
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And from hearing about it, it SHOULDN’T. I haven’t seen the transcript of it, but apparently the news folks say it contains enough qualifiers to make it “worse than NO apology.” What a surprise.</p>
<p>Also, ID… no one, particularly me, is saying that these large, rowdy group events don’t cause problems. I do, however, feel like this set of events had even more far-reaching consequences than a hazing death, although NOTHING can be worse for an individual family, obviously, than the loss of a beloved child.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>