Duke LAX case discussion continued.....;)

<p>Why should Evans have left before the stripper arrived??? Exotic dancers are hired by the thousands annually - and nothing happens - why would have this been any different?? It is not an uncommon form or entertainment. No one could have predicted any of what transpired from that event.</p>

<p>Sure - maybe poor judgement - but how many of the kids of parents - or the parents themselves - on this board - have been in attendance when an exotic dancer makes the scene - has anything even close to the Duke event happened?? Most likely not. It is a choice.</p>

<p>I may not be in favor of being at an event with an exotic dancer - but many people have no issue with it - it is a choice.</p>

<p>JeepMom, I do agree. It is not ILLEGAL to hire strippers. Many do it. It is a choice. It is distasteful to many but something others are into doing. </p>

<p>The thing in this instance, was that being a varsity team, I’d think there would be some level of standards that they have to meet to stay on the team and so the risks of getting caught breaking some rules, would matter…thus combining underage drinking, drinking in general, a possible loud party in the neighborhood, strippers, etc. might put them at greater risk of getting into some sort of trouble…like some had misdemeanors in the past for open containers or underage drinking or noise violations and so I’d think that if they got into trouble again, something might be at stake with being on the team or even some school discipline code. So, their chances of getting into some trouble were increased by this mix of factors, not that any of these things were SO bad, but let’s say the chance of something going wrong (neighbors complaining, noise, alcohol ramifications, etc.) went up, compared to say, sitting alone in one’s room watching TV or volunteering that evening at the local soup kitchen! I’m not saying anyone should only do the latter things, because the things they were doing were fairly typical of college life (though honestly my kids don’t go to stripper parties but some do I gather after hearing this story, and my kids don’t do huge spring break out of control parties, but apparently many do). So, I don’t say that they were BAD, but that the recipe for some problem happening was increased by the choices made that day and evening. Certainly nobody could have predicted anything of the likes of what happened, but sometimes when you put yourself in certain situations, the chances of getting in trouble go up. That’s all.</p>

<p>Soozievt - you are right - it is all about choices - and historically - these guys had been involved in several more minor things - but so have many many other kids at college - or even at home. Very similar types of things. Sure not the best judgement - I agree - but when these kids - and I am addressing guys AND gals in this - do some of these things - they are really not the abnormal - but for many - the behavior is the norm - accepted. </p>

<p>I recall reading back before this incident that some of this behavior had been somewhat of a norm for some - kinda overlooked by the coach and others - was not reigned in at all - and still goes on to a degree - tho alot is under more scrutiney now. When behavior goes on over a long period of time - the sense of risk tends to go down. I agree that this was a recipe for something to happen - and hindsight is definitely 20/20 - but there was no way to predict that that parties outcome would have been any different than from parties held in the past.</p>

<p>Those types of parties continue to occur - at many college campuses and surrounding areas - the best I can hope for is that all kids going off to school really are aware that their actions have consequences - and sometimes those consequences are awful.</p>

<p>JeepMom, I do agree. These behaviors are fairly typical for many college students. I don’t think truly any of it was so terrible (my personal standards). I do think, however, there are certain codes of conduct and policies of a school (and of course underage drinking is a legal rule too), and often there are behavioral rules for athletes, and so I’d think that they would have to be careful to take too many risks (out of control drinking, rowdy party, etc.) due to school or athletic consequences. And certainly, nobody could have predicted anything along the lines of what happened. Still, by being on a team, they should have to think about not getting into trouble with drinking, rowdy house parties, etc. because I would think if they did get in trouble for breaking some rules or having a run in with police, it would affect their being on the team. Again, none of those things are the worst behaviors but still there are, or should be some rules for school or for teams and appropriate consquences that fit. I don’t think these kids were “bad” but they did put themselves in a situation, in hindsight, that had a greater chance of something going wrong, though never would I imagine it being at this level of a crisis.</p>

<p>Soozievt - again we agree - but… the behavior has been overlooked by coaches for a long time - so that expectation tends to slide away - that was one of the outcomes of the investigation that the AD did and part of the reason the coach was fired - had been going on far tooo long. The rules have now been tightened and the expectation as well. The good ole boy network of coaches is now no longer - the rules will be applied pretty quickly from now on I bet.</p>

<p>I agree with that. I think there should be standards and rules to be allowed to be on the team. Likewise, most schools have certain policies and rules. They do seem to have been lax (sorry for the pun) with the lacrosse team. In my opinion, if the guys were gonna drink, it should have been in more low key ways and not at rowdy parties that called attention to it. But with no rules seemingly to worry about, things were more out of control.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.newsobserver.com/138/story/566959.html[/url]”>http://www.newsobserver.com/138/story/566959.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Thanks for the link, epistrophy. Interesting article that I find both amusing and poignant.</p>

<p>I see that Ms. Sheehan wants us to consider the lessons to be learned–the bigger picture: That those without the financial means to obtain excellent legal services might end up being falsely convicted of a crime. She admires Evans’s “larger cause,” a cause no doubt encouraged by his attorneys in order to fend off the inevitable criticism that apparently must come with justice served for the affluent.</p>

<p>The bigger picture <em>I’d</em> like Ms. Sheehan to consider is the immense power of the press to influence public opinion, set the tone for a case, and rile up a community. But for those things, this case might have proceeded very differently. </p>

<p>I would suggest that if Ms. Sheehan is that concerned about the plight of those who are wrongly accused but who do NOT have the resources to fight the charges, she use her future column space to help shed light on <em>those</em> cases. The power of the press is vast and undeniable. I would urge her to use it for legitimate and positive causes from now on.</p>

<p>Her “I’m sorry” is too little and too late (and too politically tied) for my tastes, esp. considering the unnecessary damage that she caused early on by spouting off before any facts were known. This apology did not appear to me to be issued because she truly felt she had erred. To the contrary, it appeared to be issued in order to appease her public editor and to take yet one more shot at the financial status of the LAX players and how that played into the outcome of the case.</p>

<p>~berurah</p>

<p>Right, what she might choose to say or might do in the future is to use the lessons learned here to not rush to judgement when reporting about a case. Implying that the accused are guilty (even though the DA was saying that too), didn’t have to happen. As a journalist, she could have reported evenly and with a wait and see what happens as the case unfolds, etc. </p>

<p>The other lesson is as you state, that she can use her position in the media to shed light on cases that are part of this “larger” cause…other wrongly accused defendants, many serving time in jail. She can bring such cases or injustices a lot of media attention if she wants to.</p>

<p>The exact opposite type of column was written as an editorial for the NCCU campus newspaper, The Echo. It was entitled “Death to all Rapists”. I will not provide a link here, as it is extremely nasty and contains language which might be offensive. The Johnsville New blog has a link on their main page today. This is one of the blogs that has been providing links and lists of articles that have been published about the lax case.</p>

<p>I know there are many in the NCCU community who will dismiss the column as too extreme, but others may not–and that is not going to help with the healing process.</p>

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Wow, irish, I sure hope you’re right about many dismissing that tripe. :frowning: I was particularly struck by this comment:

Let’s hope that the facts always continue to matter.</p>

<p>Maybe NCUU , Essence magazine, and Jesse Jackson will nominate Crytsal for Woman of the Year! :o</p>

<p>She was very influencial in <em>exposing</em> these white supremacists.</p>

<p>How was the stripper “politically” denigrated ???</p>

<p>I think that intelligent people have known this was a Hoax for many months. But there are some with an agenda and, unfortunately, they will not let it go. They cannot admit that this woman lied, contiued to lie and would still be lying if the AG had not exonerated the players. </p>

<p>1sokkermom~yep, still trying to figure out the “politically” part of that! Just more fuel for his fire I guess–stack as much on as you can before you light it!</p>

<p>The article in “The Echo” is a prime example of WHY the piling on of the mainstream press at the beginning was <em>so</em> completely damaging. That piling on just fed a terrifying frenzy. In fact, reading that article reminded me of all the rhetoric that was being bandied about a year ago. Knowing what we do now about the lack of credibility of the dancers and the lack of evidence to support their allegations, I can only imagine the utter terror of the players and their families as they watched themselves be vilified endlessly in the mainstream press on the basis of–NOTHING–except the words of those who felt like the author of the Echo article did.</p>

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Laid her low? Only a year later she was “laid low?” How about being fired for irresponsible, poorly researched writing masquerading as journalism?</p>

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We can dream, berurah!</p>

<p>More journalistic reflection concerning the news coverage of this case, this time from the New York Times’ “public editor”:</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/opinion/22pubed.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/opinion/22pubed.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Quoted from “The Echo” NCCU’s school newspaper</p>

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<p>OK- that’s all kind of creepy, but it’s only leading up to the really creepy stuff! </p>

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<p>I’d like to see the statistics for white on black crime vs black on white and see who’s getting away with what for the most part.</p>

<p>Here comes the scary part-</p>

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<p>And some people wonder why the Seligmann’s and the Finnerty’s are afraid of sending their children back to Duke.</p>

<p>This, to me, is scary stuff, to think that there are actually people out there who believe this crap - and that it is published!</p>

<p>Where is the outcry from the people who were screaming about Imus? At least he didn’t call for violence!</p>

<p>This is scary. The true racists are showing their color.</p>

<p>Why are they immune to all the public scrutiny?</p>

<p>Because we live in a politically correct world. Politically correct for some groups, and not others. It is crap. And the ones who ARE outraged get chastised by those who think some groups are entitled to spout such slander with no consequences. I don’t get it either.</p>

<p>Maybe this type of garbage actually promotes racism. Do you think these people care about that?</p>

<p>And the biggest crime problem is black on black. How does ignoring that fact encourage black men, women, & children to “stand up” and fight the real dangers they face?</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, NO. It is my opinion that many of the very people who speak out against racism actually want it to keep its ugly head reared. They are either profiting from it financially (ala the reverend Jesse) or politically. </p>

<p>Do you think the guy who wrote this REALLY wants racial harmony? I think he wants a race war, and that he thinks his side will come out on top. </p>

<p>Do any sane people really want to go this far?</p>

<p>I sure don’t… :(</p>