<p>It seems that if a black person makes derogatory comments (verbal or written) about a white person, it is classified as freedom of speech.</p>
<p>Yet, if a white person makes any negative comments about a black person, it is classified as racism.</p>
<p>Why is that? 
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<p>So much for equality.</p>
<p>For yet another story of wrongful conviction and imprisonment, you don’t have to look any further than today’s newspaper:</p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070423exonerate,1,5190027.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true[/url]”>http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070423exonerate,1,5190027.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true</a></p>
<p>All political correctness aside, here ya go:</p>
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<p><a href=“http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55353[/url]”>http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55353</a></p>
<p>I am sure there are many historical cases that can demonstrate that people were wrongfully convicted. This rape (post #762) conviction was in 1982.
A quick google on “DNA evidence” indicates that “Forensic use of DNA technology in criminal cases began in 1986…” </p>
<p>I am sure there are still people today that are wronfully convicted because they lack the resources to pay for costly legal representation.</p>
<p>That still does not diminish any concerns some may have toward the injustice in the (Duke) case.</p>
<p>AS discussed throughout this thread, “injustice” was exhibited by the community, the University, the new black panthers, the NCAA, the local prosecuting DA, the local detectives, and the MEDIA.</p>
<p>etc., etc., etc.</p>
<p>I read the article you linked, Berurah. It makes some good points. I would, however, mention the book “Telling: A Memoir of Rape and Recovery,” by Patricia Weaver Francisco, for a thorough examination of the harm rape does to a woman. While being falsely accused of a crime might also be considered a kind of rape, it is sometimes/often (?) possible to get one’s name cleared. After a rape there is really no going back, and there are often physical consequences that accompany the mental anguish, lasting for decades. I am just suggesting that rape and false accusation not be compared.</p>
<p>The lacrosse guys admittedly engaged in “sexual behavior” that night. I have heard too few comments on the morality of what they did, only the legality, as if legality is the be all and end all. The young men came close to a line and then were accused of having crossed it. Yes, they were treated unfairly. But we in this society have come to take rape accusations seriously, and that is something I am glad for. </p>
<p>I have told my 19-year old college freshman son, newly initiated into a fraternity this past month (to my very mixed feelings; see my other postings on this!) that the boys putting themselves in that situation was just a train wreck waiting to happen. I have explained how rape accusations are treated, how district attorneys get their jobs in our country (a problem, IMHO) and how he himself could easily be perceived as an affluent, entitled and possibly aggressive young man.</p>
<p>Berurah, Good article - Here’s the rest:</p>
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<p>Sad but true, and what we have come to expect from universities these days. I hope my kids don’t come out brainwashed at graduation!</p>
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<p>True again. What is it about having compassion for groups but not for individuals? </p>
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<p>They are truly “race baiters” and are only out for themselves. To me, that is evil and I cannot believe that they consider themselves “men of God.”</p>
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<p>That’s a good point, hide the names of the accused until indictment, although in the Duke case the guys were indicted, but it may have helped to keep the media from inflaming the people more. </p>
<p>I weep for those boys and their families. And I fear for America.
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<p>Amen and Amen!</p>
<p>“The lacrosse guys admittedly engaged in “sexual behavior” that night.” </p>
<p>I have no idea what “sexual behavior” means in that context. They hired a stripper who danced for about two minutes. The stripper stripped for a living. They told her to leave because she was either drunk or stoned or both. What “sexual behavior” did the lacrosse guys admittedly engage in ???</p>
<p>The stripper is the one who engaged in very inappropriate confirmed “sexual behavior”. I think they stated that the <em>DNA</em> of MANY different men (not lacrosse players) was found in her body.</p>
<p>I would certainly tell my daughter never to <em>strip</em> as well. But that’s just me. :eek:</p>
<p>SuNa,</p>
<p>While I agree with most of your post, I can give you an example of the other side. </p>
<p>I know of a young man(son’s best friend’s room mate) who attended one of our “prestigious” universities a couple of years ago. As a freshman, he dated a girl who turned out to be unstable (bipolar). After they broke up, she freaked and many people heard her state that “she would get him.” Later that year, they were both at a party drinking (alcohol - too much is always the problem) and they started kind of hooking up. People saw them leave together. The next day, she went to the university and cried rape. He was brought in, questioned, and based upon her testimony, suspended for the rest of the academic year. Nobody who knew them (either him or her) believed her, but because of the idea that girls don’t falsely cry rape, the university felt that the best recourse would be to get him off campus. In the spring, she lost it and her parents took her out of school. He, with the help of parents who threatened a lawsuit, was able to return to school this past fall and is doing well, albeit one year behind his contemporaries. </p>
<p>Now, you can say that he asked for it because he got drunk and got flirty with his old girlfriend who many thought was a loon. You can also say that he got off really light considering the university did not call the cops in to the situation, so he didn’t have to deal with the judicial system.</p>
<p>But, I will say that what happened to him stunk. Hopefully it was a lesson well learned, but it was a painful one that wasn’t deserved.</p>
<p>So your statement of
is troubling to me. </p>
<p>I know that if my son were the boy I have spoken about I would not feel this way. And, with a freshman son, you should be worried too because even though you have talked with him, all it would take is for him to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person for this to happen to him.</p>
<p>Excellent article, Berurah. Thanks for posting it. I agree with it 100%.</p>
<p>As to rape victims and damage, I wonder how the three young men from Duke will be able to mitigate the damage done from having millions of people around the world having heard and read their names, and having seen their photographs publicized in connection with rape, kidnapping, etc., and, from having the matter exist perpetually in cyberspace, easily accessible, forever, to anyone with a computer and an internet connection. </p>
<p>Sokkermom, couldn’t agree with you more. Not to mention that she gave birth a few months ago, the timing of which suggests she continued to engage in the same behavior pattern merely weeks after the supposed “rape”.</p>
<p>Suna~</p>
<p>I am the mother of three boys and three girls, so obviously I can understand and appreciate the issues on both sides of this. </p>
<p>I did, however, have my eyes opened in a similar way to ag54’s quite recently. A friend of my son had a brief, consensual relationship with a young woman who turned out, like the girl cited above, to be psychologically impaired. When the young man realized this and broke off the nascent relationship, all was fine for a few months. All of a sudden, though, right before finals, she apparently got angry and dredged up the consensual act they had shared (his FIRST, btw), and relabeled it “rape.” </p>
<p>Without going into too much detail, this event wreaked some serious devastation on the boy and his family, and my own son had to spend something like two days in hearings (during the week of finals) recounting his memory of the events leading up to this and testifying on behalf of a VERY fine young man. There had been NO drinking involved, NO drugs, NO putting oneself in a compromising situation. Just a normal, everyday consensual encounter.</p>
<p>The girl’s reputation was SO renowned that the case was quickly discarded after the hearing (despite the fact that the girl’s mom was an attorney). BUT, before that time, there had been some serious damage to this young man at a very inopportune time. For example, he had to leave the dorm because to get to HIS room, he had to walk by HER room, and the school made him vacate before finals. My son and some others helped him move just a few weeks shy of the semester ending.</p>
<p>One of the problems with women who have undergone devastating rapes being believed is that there ARE so many liars. Sorry, but it’s true. I am counting the situations in which women get drunk, have consensual sex, but change their minds in the morning and rename it “rape” to make themselves feel better. This DOES happen, and often enough to trash the credibility of those who, having LEGITIMATELY suffered at the hands of a man, want to press charges and receive justice. It is a VERY serious problem and one I have no answer to. But to ME, the first step, is making sure that EACH and EVERY case is viewed objectively and NOT automatically as if the woman crying “rape” is the truthful one. Each case needs to be examined on its own merits and NOT on preconceived notions of what society WANTS to believe.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, sometimes it does not even take being in the wrong place at the wrong time for something horrible to happen to your son. Sometimes, it just takes an unbalanced woman with an ax to grind.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>p.s. A couple of years ago, my best friend of ten years was <em>so</em> devastated that her D had engaged in sex with her bf (girl was about 15 at the time) that she told me that the boy had tried to “rape” her D and that she was going to threaten charges against him if he came near her D again. I KNEW this boy well. He was the most quiet, shy, reticent kid (and a virgin when he met the girl), and her D had CLEARLY been the aggressor in that relationship. The mom never pressed charges, but she COULD have. She is no longer a friend of mine.</p>
<p>berurah~thanks so much for posting an article that has so many good points in it!</p>
<p>SuNa~I also am confused by your reference to the lax players “sexual behavior” that night. Are you coming from the camp that continues to argue “something happened”? The lax players said there was no sexual contact between them and either of the women who came to perform. All the evidence and information bears that out, which is why the AG exonerated the 3 young men completely.</p>
<p>Not only are false rape reports a significant problem, so too are unreported rapes - of which, I suspect (and obviously there aren’t any reliable statistics on this one way or the other), there are many more than there are false reports. Many women, understandably, simply do not want to go through our meat grinder of a criminal-justice system. And their situation is certainly not helped any by those who make false reports.</p>
<p>It’s important, too, to keep in mind that the failure to report a rape does not affect only that particular victim and rapist. It may also affect other women as well - women who are subsequently raped by someone who, if anything, was only further emboldened to continue his predatory behavior by having eluded prosecution for this offense.</p>
<p>More college boys hiring strippers…</p>
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<p>Cheers,
Where did you find that article? How bizarre/ironic is that???</p>
<p>I don’t know which of the two of them is ickier, within the context of the article. Trying to imagine - and just cannot - having a job where the phone rings, and the job requirement is to meet a total stranger in a hotel room, and “dance” for him.</p>
<p>cheers~</p>
<p>These two situations with the strippers were VASTLY different. In one case, some rowdy boys were seeking “entertainment.” With Cho, this was a HIGHLY disturbed individual who could apparently not get female attention IRL and so sought this out for very different reasons. To me, this belonged more on the VT thread and not as much here, as it really doesn’t demonstrate much similarity to what the LAX players were doing. They both hired strippers, yes, but in VERY, VERY different contexts.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>I can’t believe anyone would even make this correlation.</p>
<p>With all due respect, none of us can really know what was in the mind of Cho when he hired this stripper. While his persona was certainly not that of the Duke lax players, as disturbed and angry as he was, and, with the rejections from the two girls he stalked, he could just as easily have taken his rage on on the dancer.</p>
<p>I totally agree with you, Berurah, in your assessment about the differences between the two situations regarding the strippers. </p>
<p>Also, that was a terrific article you linked to. Prager’s editorial really hit the nail on the head - eight times!</p>
<p>The fact that Cho ( a very mentally disturbed individual) may or may not have hired a prostitute, and met her at a hotel, has nothing to do with this case at all. I’m not sure that the Cho prostitute “story” has even been confirmed.</p>