<p>1sokkermom,
According to the article, they tracked down the dancer Cho hired through credit card transactions on Chos card. Interesting thing to purchase on one’s credit card, eh?</p>
<p>
Hey jym?</p>
<p>I was wondering if you could clarify what you were saying with this post? I’ve read it a few times, but I can’t figure out whether you’re saying that you felt the Cho link was relevant to the Duke events or IRrelevant. </p>
<p>Tons of people hire strippers at one time or another for a variety of reasons. To me, the mentioning of this fact of Cho’s life is not relevant to this discussion because it is rather obvious that the LAX players (as a whole) and Cho were very different sorts of people. It would seem fair to make the assumption that Cho hired the stripper because he had some issues or discomfort around females in his “normal, everyday” life. This did not seem to be the case with the LAX players who, if a bit boorish, seemed much more emotionally “normal.”</p>
<p>Good posts, all. By “sexual behavior” I wasn’t hinting that rape or even consensual intercourse occurred. Watching someone dance/strip is, to me, sexual behavior, and comes closer to “the line” than, say, watching a sporting event or a PG movie. That is why many reasonable people believed there had been intercourse.</p>
<p>Helpful to point out that girls can and do lie about rape. I will talk to my son about that. I guess all of us parents know that ideally, our kids should wait until they really know and understand and love someone before having sex. The examples you’ve provided, berurah and others, will help drive that point home.</p>
<p>
Suna~</p>
<p>I can tell you that I <em>NEVER</em> thought I’d feel this way as a mother…not EVER, but I am actually MORE fearful for my sons than for my daughters with regard to this subject. Where my daughters have been taught to respect both themselves and the young men they choose to be associated with…and to exercise caution in all situations, I have come to feel that my sons are actually more vulnerable to something untoward happening because of the way the pendulum has swung on this issue.</p>
<p>Now, the names of accusers of rape are protected (even if the accusations are FALSE, at least with many publications), but the guys’ names are put right out there and their reputations are trashed even before all the facts are known. I understand the WHY of protecting the accuser, but it still makes me squirm that a woman has the capability to concoct a story out of spite and not be held accountable for the damage she wreaks simply because of the way rape has been treated in the PAST. </p>
<p>One other reason why my own fears are now more centered around my sons is because I have only known of ONE case of a young woman I’ve been acquainted with being raped (and I don’t know her well, and I’m going on her word alone here), but I’ve been privy to SEVERAL cases of false accusations, including the one that my son and others of his friends had to testify regarding. I have no statistics to back this up, but I’m not sure AT ALL that there are more unreported rapes (TRUE rapes, and not subsequent “changes of mind”) than there are false accusations. My opinion only. YMMV.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Oh Gosh, I better admit to my husband that I exhibited “sexual behavior” at my bachelorette party! </p>
<p>My brides maids hired this guy who came dressed as a cop and ended up stripping down to a g-string (gross). We all recoiled and shrieked! But, a good time was had by all, including my mother, who I’m sure didn’t think she was committing “sexual behavior.” </p>
<p>I hope my dad, who is a “reasonable person” didn’t believe we all had intercourse. My husband must not have, he married me, and I married him too, even though I know that his buddies hired a stripper for his bachelor party too. </p>
<p>Somehow we’ve stayed together over 20 years (and counting) despite our deviant “sexual behavior”! 
LOL!</p>
<p>ag54…yep, totally. </p>
<p>I believe that when the accuser in the Duke case was first being described, the press had her tagged as a struggling, working mother of two young kids. Her “dancing” was described as her business and strictly a job. It can’t be both ways. If she was conducting business, then the LAX players were too.</p>
<p>
Sure it can. For a hooker, sex is a business. For her/his clients, it is recreation, and of sufficient enjoyment that it is worth paying for.</p>
<p>The difference is that hiring an “exotic dancer” is entirely legal sexual behavior. As is watching porn movies, or old Baywatch reruns. Which, in retrospect, is what they should have stuck to.</p>
<p>I’ll disclose a story that happened to my son during hs, not a rape accusation (thank God), but in my Peyton Place environment, we were just as upset…</p>
<p>He had a good girl friend since junior high, they hung out alot and had always enjoyed being together, but had never been romantic, he had a girlfriend and she had a boyfriend. One night she came over (a totally normal thing) and after a while they started “cuddling” (which they often did, even in front of us), then “kissing” (mind you, his little brother was in the next room with doors open). Anyway, at some point, she came to her senses and said to stop, and he did. They both agreed not to say anything to anyone because they didn’t want to hurt their boyfriend/girlfriend. Sometime later in the week, he started hearing that she had been telling people, first she told friends the real story, then as the real story started getting around, including to her boyfriend, she changed it to, “he forced himself on me.” She came up with a REALLY cockamamie story of how it happened, but her boyfriend believed her. I came home to find her boyfriend and my son fighting in the front yard. My husband went out and talked to both of them and pointed out that the boyfriend may not have the whole story. We then sat our son down and had him give us a second by second play by play of that night. We also had his little brother come and tell us what he had seen and heard, and he was able to totally corroborate our older son’s story. We told our son to take the high road, to definitely not talk to her, and to not talk about her to others, to just sit tight and if it didn’t blow over, we’d set up a meeting with her parents and her. (Luckily, my son has a really good reputation in the area and I had parents calling to say they didn’t believe her story and not to worry about it, that it would blow over) </p>
<p>Well, she must have loved the attention of her starring role in the drama, because when he wouldn’t talk to her, she had people coming up to him at school begging him to talk to her, and she staged a crying episode in the lunch room, MAJOR DRAMA. After a couple of days, my son had enough and he called after school and said, “SET UP THE MEETING!” So, my husband and son went and met with her and her father. Her parents didn’t know the whole story and after they heard my son’s side, she admitted that what he said was true. Surprisingly, her father thanked my son for being a gentleman and stopping when she said to and also for not trashing her at school. She had to go back and tell everybody, including her boyfriend, that she had lied. </p>
<p>So, all’s well that ends well, but I can tell you that in that week and a half that all this was going on, I was furious! I couldn’t sleep. I couldn’t believe that this girl was doing this to my son. I cannot imagine, with how frustrated and angry I was over this pretty trivial hs episode, how a parent whose kid has been accused of rape would feel. But, I personally know from experience that girls will say some crazy things when they get cornered or want attention. </p>
<p>At least it was a lesson well learned in our house, for all my sons.</p>
<p>^^When we call watching “Baywatch” “sexual behavior,” something is getting diminished here…</p>
<p>By the same token, viewing a stripper <em>could</em> be interpreted as appreciating “performance art.” </p>
<p>“What’s in a name?” ;)</p>
<p>^ For that matter, what is an “escort” who willingly goes to a hotel room alone with a man, and gets paid to strip called? (Knowing that the customer will get <em>sexually</em> aroused?) </p>
<p>Hmmm, the “legal” definition may be important to her so she doesn’t get arrested. That way her customers can pay for her “to dance” with a credit card too, and it’s all legit! </p>
<p>…And if a stripper gets paid for stripping , and throws the sex in for free, I guess that could still be considered legal. (as long as the client doesn’t PAY for the sex.) :rolleyes:</p>
<p>In the case of the " stripper /dancer" at Duke, she apparently “danced” a lot. I guess the <em>DNA</em> from five different men found in her body proves nothing. That sex could have been consensual, and not a business transaction at all. She probably got paid for the dancing, and the rest may have been a bonus. :o</p>
<p>So what’s in a name? Yup, it’s all dancing, dancing, dancing…</p>
<p>berurah-
To be honest, I really don’t have an opinion one way or the other as to the relevance of one story to the other. I just find it creepily eerie/ironic that Cho hired a dancer, which I’d imagine is a relatively minor issue in the scheme of things, given what he did. Wonder what would have happened if she had screamed rape?? Would he have been picked up, hospitalized, incarcerated, re-evaluated in the MH system? Who knows. I was just commenting on the weird irony. That said, given his distorted thinking and escalating rage, this young lady should probably count her lucky stars.</p>
<p>Don’t you think this <em>young lady</em> is asking for trouble by going to a hotel room to strip for a complete stranger ? You are right. She is lucky. She is also very very stupid. (imho) :eek:</p>
<p>
Absolutely agree. Also agree that there is no reason to find a correlation between Cho’s private stripper & the lax party very public strippers.</p>
<p>
Lesson learned. Friends who are really “just friends” do not cuddle.</p>
<p>The article clearly states that Cho’s hire, “Chastity”, worked for an escort service.</p>
<p>According to wiki-pedia: “From a legal perspective, escort agencies claim that they are dispatching these individuals to provide a social or conversational service, since prostitution laws often forbid taking payment for sex or communicating for the purpose of arranging a contract for sexual services. Advertisements for escort agencies often carefully skirt the legal line, and avoid specifically offering prostitution or sexual services. This fact in turn is well-known to police and the political powers, who, where prostitution is illegal, usually prefer to act against more visible and problematic street prostitution. This has been criticised as hypocrisy, especially where government licenses and taxes the escort agencies.”</p>
<p>Further goes on to say: "In escort prostitution, the act takes place at the customer’s place of residence or more commonly at his or her hotel room (currently referred to as “out-call”), or at the escort’s place of residence or in a hotel room rented for the occasion by the escort (called “incall”). This form of prostitution often shelters under the umbrella of escort agencies, who ostensibly supply attractive escorts for social occasions. While escort agencies claim never to provide sexual services, very few successful escorts are available exclusively for social companionship. Even where this prostitution is legal, the euphemistic term “escort service” is common. "</p>
<p>It doesn’t really sound like “Chastity” came forward on her own. Seems she was tracked down by the FBI. They found the “Escort Service” she worked for through the credit card receipts. </p>
<p>Of course she told the FBI she was a dancer, who was hired only to dance. Maybe she wasn’t so stupid after all… :o</p>
<p>Sticker Shock, Yeah, we learned the hard way. But, they had just been friends for a long time (but maybe some tension behind it that neither recognized or wanted, who knows). </p>
<p>Still, she totally screwed him (figuratively - definitely not literally)! My point was that even “normal” girls can find themselves in a situation where their story can change depending on the circumstances. In her case, she paid for it by having to publicly declare that she had lied. It didn’t make my son any happier, he was sad to lose the friendship. But, with friends like that, who needs enemies.</p>
<p>ag54, I’m really sorry that happened. I am in some ways very relieved to not have any sons. It really seems like young men are really in a very difficult position - if I did have a son, I would be tempted to suggest he get signed, notarized consent forms prior to beginning any sort of physical interaction…</p>
<p>
ag54~</p>
<p>Thanks for relating your story…it truly makes an extremely important point–that given certain pressures, even “normal” kids can change/alter/fabricate a story to save face or protect a reputation that has been tarnished. Like I’ve said above, I’ve seen THAT many more times than I’ve seen or heard about a real rape accusation go unreported, not that I doubt that they do. </p>
<p>With my son having been so close to a situation of a false rape accusation last year (the one I referenced above), he has had his eyes opened and has learned a great deal. This is one of the times I’m THANKFUL that he’s been involved with the same great gal for the past 2.5+ years.</p>
<p>ag54, it’s not something I’m looking forward to when son gets closer to that age. He’s 10, but I can already tell he’s not going to be very savy! Thank God your son escaped further accusations or involvement of police.</p>
<p>No matter what side you are on, and no matter what issue is involved, there will be people on your side who you wish weren’t.</p>
<p>I’ve got a feeling that this is a burden the 3 will be carrying to a greater extent than most.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/1359460/[/url]”>http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/1359460/</a></p>
<p>Delbarton deserves a lot of credit too. (Hear that Brodhead?)</p>