Duke TIP: Super Selective?

Parent Cafe
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<p>As long as he qualifies based on his SAT scores, he qualifies for the program. The only competition that he would face is being among the first to sign up for whatever class he wants to take. The classes fill up rapidly, and the wait list is long. Lots of students have the scores qualifying them for TIP, and they also have the money and interest that would allow them to take the classes.</p>

<p>Despite my sending back the info immediately by Express Mail, S didn’t get in into his first or second choice classes, but got into his third choice class, which he loved.</p>

<p>It’s important that students only bother listing the courses they’d happily take because due to the large numbers of interested students, they may end up getting into one of their less preferred courses.</p>

<p>Of all of the Talent Search programs, I believe that CTY Johns Hopkins and TIP - Duke have the highest score requirements. They also may attract the most applicants. If your S doesn’t get into Duke CTY or lacks the qualifying scores for that, check out TIP, CTY and other Talent Search programs with lower score requirements. Students don’t have to take programs that are in their home area. Going outside of their region also can be a nice way for students to explore different types of campuses and different regions of the country, which can help them know the kind of environment they’d like for college.</p>

<p>There also are weekend programs through TIP. Those are open to virtually any student who is identified as gifted regardless of the student’s scores. While the info about the programs is sent only to TIP students who live probably within an hour or so drive from the program, anyone who qualifies can apply.</p>

<p>Monitor the TIP web site so you can put your kid’s application in soon after it’s posted because those programs, too, fill up fast. Those are particularly nice options for families who can’t afford the couple of thousand dollars for TIP/CTY, but can afford a few hundred dollars for a weekend program.</p>

<p>S took a TIP summer philosophy class at U Kansas, and a summer existentialism class at CTY Loyola Marymount. He took a TIP weekend fuel cell engineering program at Duke and storytelling with sound at New College. He liked all of the programs, but for various reasons – ranging from the pullution in LA to the hills at U Kansas – he wasn’t interested in applying to college at any of those places.</p>

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<p>sabooks-
Duke TIP has 2 levels of summer programs, with 2 different score requirements for admission. It sounds like your dau. qualified for the courses offered by the “Academy for Summer Studies”, which has a minimum 7th grade SAT score requirement of 500 for math or Cr. reading (formerly verbal). The higher program, the “Center for summer Studies” requires a math or Cr. reading minimum of 570 on one OR at least 520 on both.
Here’s the link to the specific requirements;
<a href=“http://www.tip.duke.edu/summer_programs/center/index.html[/url]”>http://www.tip.duke.edu/summer_programs/center/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>ejr-
Are you sure your dau’s program was a TIP program? I don’t think they have a program (in the grades 7-10) offered at Wake Forest.</p>

<p>*Note:
I looked in the 2007 catalog for programs grades 9-12. I don’t see anything offered at Wake, and I know the regular programs are only offered at Duke, Appalachian State, Davidson and now also Texas A&M. Perhaps you dau wa at Davidson or App State?</p>

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<p>One last thing-- I believe the woman who had been in charge of media/marketing (not sure of the title) just retired. It is possible that a new person is onboard who is mailing catalogs out to a wider range of potential students.
As for classes filling up- yes that is true. The older students get the catalog about a month before the 7th graders, so the youngest kids have the hardest time getting the classes they want. But it is true, you should get your app. in early to increase the likelihood you’ll get a spot. Over time, however, I learned that if you list many choices, you tend to get the one that is the least popular. If you just pick one (and get it in quickly) you’ll ususally get it.</p>

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<p>Agree with all said. Have the application ready and mail express.
There is a second tier for TIP program at a separate campus.
AI course is extremely popular, as is marine biology.</p>

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<p>This discussion brings back ancient memories. My younger d, who’s now a college junior, qualified for TIP through Duke back when she was in 7th grade. We got summer program brochures and a newletter every year through H.S. graduation. Many of the courses they offered during the summer looked interesting, but they did seem very expensive. Thankfully (?), D was never interested in attending any of them because they did not involve, acting, singing, or dancing! My very bright D decided by age 11 that a career in performing arts was what she was destined for. </p>

<p>Personally, I felt that summer coursework for academically gifted middle school students should be offered closer to home and be reasonably priced. In my area, there is a program for young gifted students called Super Saturdays. It is offered during hte school year. Students can take courses in several different areas with their intellectual peers. The courses are reasonably priced and don’t require paying room and board. Several of my acquaintances have been very pleased with the local program. </p>

<p>Deep down, I’ve always wondered how much of the TIP program is a marketing tool for schools like Duke and how much is really a service for gifted children. </p>

<p>Gifted education is a subject I should not get started on. I still laugh when I recall my younger D getting tested in elementary school. The parents of students who tested well were given a written report identifying areas in which their child was thought to be gifted and/or talented. The parents were also invited to attend a talk given by the new director of gifted and talented education for the district. The director explained what was meant by the term gifted and talented and explained what services were available - basically none. My D was identified as academically gifted and was also identified as being talented in several arts areas. My husband and I found it laughable that the director sat us down to explain that our child most likely had talent in music, dance, and drama. She suggested that we might want to consider lessons. Naturally, the school district offered nothing. As musicians, my husband and I found it just a little insulting for a stranger to tell us that our child had talent. She seemed to believe that we would find the test results surprising! At the time our D had taken several years of dance lessons, played the piano, had been hand-picked as a 2nd grader to perform in a H.S. musical, and had done a couple of local professional theatrical productions. My husband and I were hardly clueless to the fact that our child had potential as an artist. Sadly, a high percentage of the students at my D’s elementary school came from low income families. I can literally count on one hand the number of students who took music lessons or dance classes while my D attended that school. Identifying children as having potential does no good when their parents cannot afford to pay for training.</p>

<p>It’s been 11 years since my younger D was identified by her elementary school as being gifted and 20 years since my older D attended a very ill-conceived once-a-week pull-out program. No progress has been made in implementing an effective gifted and talented program in our district.</p>

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<p>ooh, me bad, ejr. I just read the “gr 9-12” catalog again, and stumbled into an International Affairs class being offered at Wake Forest. Is that what your dau took? </p>

<p>Bookworm-
What is the “AI” class? Just curious. Is it that International Affaris class I read about?</p>

<p>Alu-
My boys spent several summers at TIP. They made lasting friends and enjoyed the experience. Sounds like it might not have been the right place for dancersmom’s dau., but it was a good experience for my guys. It certainly got them comfortable living in a dorm and finding their way around a college campus. It also gave them a flavor for Duke and for Davidson (though both are certainly very different places in the summer than they are during the regular academic year). We also looked at the Costa Rica medical experience one last year, but it seemed very expensive, as it was a shorter program than the others (12 days, I think) and didn’t include the airfare. So, my s took a “biology of cancer” class with one of his old TIP buddies at Duke. Plus, we did a college tour at UNC and Duke when we took him up there, so all worked out.</p>

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<p>My son is eagerly looking forward to his final summer at TIP. He really enjoyed the previous two years there. I think one of the best parts for him is that he is surrounded by others who are like him - smart, interested in learning, slightly nerdy. The teachers have also been excellent and I look forward to the parent conferences they have - they do seem to “get” my son. The RA staff is also good at getting the shyest kid involved, and there are lots of planned activities to interest everyone. It’s a good program.</p>

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<p>AI stands for artificial intelligence. It seemed that the computer science courses booked immediately. The woman in charge of program was a true asset, answering questions about classes and teachers.
Procrastination about sending in application can rule out preferred classes, and who wants to spend the $$ for a child’s 4th or 5th choice? Only sign up for classes one wants to take.</p>

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<p>hmmm Alu, is this the same s you were concerned about a year ago??</p>

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<p>bookworm,
My brain cells aren’t firing too quickly this weekend (due in part to serious headcold and cold meds) . AI-- of course. Duh. Me bad again. Yes, the computer classes fill quickly too. While unfortunately the very first TIP class my older son took ended up being his 6th choice (and his only non computer/science pick) it ended up being a great expereince. It was a class on the introduction and production of film. Back then they let all 4 yrs into one class (now they are tighter with the ages in the different classes). He was the only rising 8th grader in the class. There was one rising 9th grader and the rest were rising 10th and 11th graders. In addition, he was young (June birthday) and small. they called him “waif-boy”. However, they were very nice to him, and he learned a lot about films and film production. Later in HS he ended up taking an advanced film editing class (allowed because of his experience) and a Film Noir class. He also did some volunteer work for our state’s Bar association, who needed a video/audio clip from a 20 minute TV show edited and put together into a 2 minute snipit. It worked out very well all the way around. So, ya nevah know. However, I must say that after that class, it was a different experience going to the movies with him. He’d point out all the editing and lighting errors in the films!</p>

<p>And as I mentioned earlier, after that experience at TIP (getting the last choice) my s’s would only put one or 2 choices at most, and we’d get the application in ASAP. They hold all the apps until a certain official “first day” to apply, so as long as you get it in before that date, they open them all on that first day. Oh, and my guys always got their first choice after that.</p>

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<p>Hi andi!
Funny how or challenging boys seem to be slowly coming around… If you happened to read one of the PSAT threads, is teems like there is a high correlation between the previous hassle-factor imposed by these boys on their parents and their ultimate PSAT score :)</p>

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<p>Hi andi! </p>

<p>Yes, this is the same son, since he’s also my only son;). And yes, because he’s so different from my daughter, I was worried. But, given sage advice here on cc, which I knew was right anyway:), I let him take his own path, no joining, etc. So this interest in tropical biology has evolved pretty naturally, now that I think about it. As a little guy he memorized every insect in the California insect manual. At 11, he fell in love with Costa Rica. Last summer at CTY in Hawaii (well, yeah, mom did encourage that one…)Now that he’s 16, it’s like he now is tall enough to see out into the world and think, hey, maybe there is a way to pursue these things that were not in my control as a kid, to not have to wait for grandparents to take us to Latin America to see poison dart frogs. If that makes sense. He only wants to do the two Tropical Biology courses, so we will just have to see what happens when we send in the applications. Of course, the application now involves of all things, ESSAYS! Harbingers of things to come. I do not want to invoke the essay fairy until she is absolutely necessary. Perhaps just the marmots from Sinner’s Alley…</p>

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<p>ah, I guess I missed that thread–I’m way behind the times on Alu-son. Thanks for filling me in. </p>

<p>And I hope you feel better soon. I had that rotten cold over New Years.</p>

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<p>Alu I posted before I saw your post. I’m not sure this would be applicable, but he may want to check out the Woods Hole Institute, affiliated with MIT.</p>

<p>Anyway I’m happy to hear that his interests are coming to life! That’s wonderful. Maybe he’s out of the shadow of super older D?</p>

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<p>Here is list of marine conservation programs avail through Gap Year.com. Many have 17 and over as the age range. He could do more than one ?</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.gapyear.com/placements/gyc_marine_conservation.html[/url]”>http://www.gapyear.com/placements/gyc_marine_conservation.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Alu-
Do you have this dreadful head/sinus thing as well? It’s a bugger. I don’t usually get bothered much by this stuff, but this is yukky. I will spare you the details.
Do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT sweat over the essay for the TIP application. For the gr 7-10 programs, my s used to type it in triple space, HUGE font, just to get a few sentences to fill the page they provided. I suspect that anything other than “I really don’t want to come, and I"d rather be picking my toenails out, but my parents are making me apply because it’ll look good on my college apps” will probably be fine. In fact, your post # 33 ought to do the trick just fine. It looks like they ask (1) why are you interested in the program you are choosing (2) what do you hope to gain (3) what will you contribute and (4) what qualities do you hope to see in our classmates are pretty reasonable, and they have no minimum length- just a maximum of 2 pgs. Whatever hewrites will be fine. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Wow. Just looked at the gapyear.com stuff. Looks in some ways even better than the Duke program - inasmuch as so much is hands on. Is there a way to sort through/understand which outfitters have the best reputation?</p>

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<p>Dancersmom-- I must correct your erroneous assumption that these programs are marketing efforts for the colleges and not legitimate, time-tested programs for gifted kids who may not have access to anything like this at home.</p>

<p>I can’t speak to Duke… but the CTY programs, as expensive as they are, are not “profitable” for JHU. The programs are heavily subsidized by corporate, foundation, and private gifts; if CTY raises the profile of JHU among desirable potential applicants it is quite by accident and not a part of the program at all. I believe that talented low income kids who get identified in middle school via the CTY talent search may get extra college mail by the time they’re in HS, but since opportunities for those kids are so limited anyway, who could carp?</p>

<p>If you had a condescending experience with a local GT program then deal with your local school system. These university based programs are life-saving for kids who end up bored, socially ostracized, or just checked-out if there aren’t resources for them outside their own districts.</p>

<p>My own district can’t afford GT; costs of special ed have soared in the last 10 years, and the threat of parental lawsuits means that the district would rather assign a full time aide or provide private taxi service to a kid with limitations rather then get shafted in court. So-- kids with high academic potential get nothing; kids who might be better served in a program targeted to their disability or learning challenge end up getting “mainstreamed” since that’s the PC way of inclusion.</p>

<p>thank god for cty and their ilk. I can’t wait for someone in my town to threaten a lawsuit asking the board of ed to pay for a GT summer program! (I know several districts pay for CTY if the kid takes a class not offered by their school… worth checking out if your kid wants marine biology…)</p>

<p>End of rant.</p>

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<p>alu-
Hard to say how to evaluate which is “better”. The only difference might be in the admission criteria to participate in any given program. You might be able to expect a certain calibre of student in a program if there are stricter admissions criteria to meet. If it is a program that takes anyone, or has a very non-restricted admissions policy, the type of student may vary more widely, which could affect your son’s experience.</p>