I think that student bodies in general would have less of an issue with Christian prayers than Muslim prayers simply because of how civil religion operates in the United States - our nationalism is intertwined with Judeo-Christian roots despite our secularism. But that’s beside the point. I don’t think an administration would have disparate views between the two, however.
@preamble1776 “My issue with your statement is that you are comparing a Muslim/Christian/Jewish student group to an atheist student organization which cannot be compared because atheism is not a religion”
This is the United States. In this country, Atheism is afforded the same first amendment protection as any other religion and is protected equally under the first amendment. It is interesting to me that you are all about equality when it meant Muslims getting a call to prayer, but you will not agree that Atheists should receive equal treatment. Atheistphobic are we?
I was happy to agree that everyone should receive equal treatment, but you are the one who is discriminating while trying to pretend to be oppressed.
" Insisting that “Allah means Allah” as just your honest opinion functions to alienate Islam from the other monotheistic faiths from which it is founded upon and this alienation could be interpreted as Islamaphobic"
I base my opinion on having asked Muslims what it means, and I have been told my all of them that it refers to Allah, the god of Islam, and does not refer to a generic god. I object consistently to treating Muslims differently than every other belief system. How is that Islamaphobic? I respect Christians, Muslims, Buddists, Hindus, and Atheists equally.
“functions to alienate Islam from the other monotheistic faiths from which it is founded”
This in in your mind. Again, I think allowing it is fine as long as everyone is equal, whether they are monotheistic, pantheistic, polytheistic or atheistic extend equal privileges to all. You are the one asserting special rights for one group over another. I am supporting it.
“Atheists do not cohere in the same manner religious groups do”
True, but none of these groups cohere. Should it be a Sunni call to pray or a Shia call to prayer? How many Christian denominations are there? How many Jewish? How should we measure this cohesion?
““God is imaginary” would suggest that the conviction of atheists is homogenous when in reality - it isn’t.”
I have never heard an Atheist disagree with this statement. Have you? Furthermore, I said nothing about homogeneity. You set up that straw man as a total non-sequitor so you could knock it down yourself.
In the end, either you support treating everyone equally no matter what their beliefs are, or you do not. From this discussion it is clear that I support treating everyone equally, and you do not. You are the one supporting discrimination, and I support equality. It is that simple.
@Much2learn I’m not gonna reiterate the whole “Allah” literally means God in Arabic because it does. If you spoke Arabic fluently, the phrase “the God” verbally comes out as “Allah.” There is no Islamic God - there’s just God, and three groups worship him differently. Not a generic god (lowercase g) - but the monotheistic, Abrahamic God. If you don’t want to believe it, then fine.
My point was that Muslims are part of the religious plurality at Duke University - atheism is not a religion. Yes, atheists are afforded the right to free speech - I am not contending that. The first amendment has multiple clauses - one deals with free speech, another with religion. Atheists do not factor into the equation of religious tolerance because they aren’t a religion. The Physics club could in theory start chanting Newtonian laws of motion every Sunday morning but that’s pretty irrelevant to the issue at hand. When atheists approach Duke asking to chant “God is imaginary” - then Duke will cross that bridge when they get there.
“You are the one supporting discrimination, and I support quality. It is that simple.”
Your username is quite fitting.
Duke IS a Christian school. From wikipedia:
“The university “has historical, formal, on-going, and symbolic ties with the United Methodist Church, but is an independent and non-sectarian institution.”[30][31][59] According to the institution’s bylaws, an aim of Duke University is to “assert a faith in the eternal union of knowledge and religion set forth in the teachings and character of Jesus Christ”.[60][61] As such, twenty-four out of thirty-six University Trustees are elected from the “North Carolina Conference of the United Methodist Church; twelve by the Western North Carolina Conference of the United Methodist Church”.”
@preamble1776 If you don’t support discrimination, why not Agee with me that everyone’s beliefs should be accorded equal respect and equal privilege? That sure would be easy to do. Why won’t you do so?
I think we all know the answer.
@Much2learn
“why not agree with me that everyone’s beliefs should be accorded equal respect and equal privilege”
- Atheism isn’t a belief.
- If I ran Duke, I’d let anyone say whatever they wanted whenever they felt like it. If atheists wanted to chant “God is imaginary” I’d let them. If the Latin club wanted to chant second declension nouns, I’d let them. If the pre-law fraternity wanted to chant USNWR law school rankings, I’d let them. If the cafeteria employees wanted to let everyone know what next week’s breakfast special was, I’d let them. But I don’t run Duke.
I would probably not let any of them . Too noisy. Free speech doesn’t mean open-mike Friday. 
@marie1234 - That’s why I don’t run Duke. I’m too much of a push over, lol.
“Atheists do not factor into the equation of religious tolerance because they aren’t a religion.” So it’s ok to discriminate against atheists on a purely religious basis because they aren’t a religion?
"Arkansas, Article 19, Section 1:
No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court.
Maryland, Article 37:
That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution.
Mississippi, Article 14, Section 265:
No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state.
North Carolina, Article 6, Section 8
The following persons shall be disqualified for office: Any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.
South Carolina, Article 17, Section 4:
No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution.
Tennessee, Article 9, Section 2:
No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state.
Texas, Article 1, Section 4:
No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."
@preamble1776 If Atheism isn’t a belief then what is it? a fact? Of course it is a belief.
If you are willing to treat everyone equally then hurray! We agree! Although I think after a week of that, I would agree with @Marie1234 and tell them all to shut up.
@Much2learn - It is a lack of belief. It is the polar opposite of a belief. “Of course it is a belief” - what do they believe in?
@preamble1776 Atheists believe there is no God.
@mathyone It is true that many State laws discriminate against Atheists, but federal courts have consistently struck them down.
Edit: I’m too tired for semantics. G’night.
Why are we offended when other people express their religious beliefs? So that kid says this prayer and calls his God Bob. This kid says a different prayer on a different day and calls his God Sally. Those kids don’t pray at all and have no God at all. So what?
That’s like me being offended that your favorite color is red when mine is blue. Live and let live people. Why all the offense? As long as no one is forcing anything on anyone, how about a little respect for other people’s beliefs. You don’t have to agree with them.
I went to a Catholic college and there was a controversy when the bookstore pulled a copy of a magazine with a free condom inside. I was interviewed by the school paper for my opinion. I told them that it was morally wrong to try to coerce someone to go against their religion, whether I agreed with them or not. Nothing was preventing me from walking to the corner store and buying my own copy (or condoms for that matter).
I don’t know, of course a private u is free to do what they like, but having the actual call to prayer over a loudspeaker feels qualitatively more of an endorsement than ringing church bells does.
If a student group were to proclaim the Shema over loudspeakers every Friday at my D’s very liberal campus, I guarantee that pro-Palestininan groups would be up in arms and protest being subject to it.
Of course, all student groups should be free to conduct their services as they see fit - it’s the broadcasting that is the issue IMO.
@Much2learn In regards to the atheism debate, I think that a lot of people say that atheism is a belief because there is an assumption that one must accept that some form of god/creator exists or doesn’t exist. I think many atheists instead view that as an assertion and accept that unless there is evidence to view something otherwise, the claim is null. Christopher Hitchens famously said that an assertion made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, and in this case I believe that is the logic most atheists follow. Whether or not it is a belief is not an issue. It takes faith to be either an atheist or a theist, but atheists believe that there case is supported by logical analysis that the theistic claim lacks. Whether or not that’s true is a completely separate discussion though.
It’s stupid for any college to allow any group to have special privileges over others. Regardless of my views on Islam and other religions, if I started a club that was struggling to attract new members and then some other organization gained a privilege to basically advertise to everyone on campus, I’d be pretty annoyed at the apparent favoritism.
Maybe this will help students in terms of adding to or whittling down their application lists. More information is always good!
I just went back and reread the article. Three minutes of chanting does seem excessive. With church bells there aren’t any words and the connection to whatever religion the bells might represent (or have represented at one tome) is more tenuous.
I am not saying Duke is favoring the Muslim community but I hope they are prepared for more groups wanting announcements over the loudspeaker.
Of course atheism is a belief. You can never prove that God does not exist, and many religious people believe that there is sufficient evidence to prove that he does.
@muchtolearn, but the laws remain on the books. If popular opinion were overwhelmingly against them, they would be changed. I think many people agree with the sentiment that freedom of belief and protection from religious discrimination apply only to religious people.