<p>“UMich seems to do a better job at educating these “weaker” students and placing them into top grad schools and firms…Which then is the better school? One that prepares weak-SAT scoring students for top positions, or one that seems like an entitlement club with rampant grade inflation and where you go to have fun, get your butt wiped and your golden ticket stamped?”</p>
<p>Hey be fair. Duke actually has grade deflation and it certainly is not a place where one gets his/her “butt wiped.”</p>
<p>^ Sorry…yeah, that wasn’t fair.</p>
<p>“It’s NOT a step in the right direction. There’s nothing inherently better about going to an i-banking job than any other type of job. Just because some people are money whores …”</p>
<p>It IS a step in the right direction of what Alex and I are trying to figure out.</p>
<p>In your world, what jobs are all these poly sci and art history majors getting or is everyone going onto grad school? I don’t think anyone is arguing that pre-professional placement is the only criteria to measure a school, but it is a measure and one that is being discussed.</p>
<p>“Which then is the better school? One that prepares weak-SAT scoring students for top positions, or one that seems like an entitlement club with rampant grade inflation and where you go to have fun, get your butt wiped and your golden ticket stamped?”</p>
<p>I would say the second. More fun, less effort, same outcome. However, I doubt it’s the weak scoring UMichigan grads getting these jobs.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Nope, not with more A’s than Bs on transcripts. Try your friend Mr. Google. (Hint: gradeinflation dot com was started by a Duke prof.)</p>
<p>I have a friend at Duke who says that there clearly is grade deflation in the sciences. (Maybe there is inflation in the humanities). She received a 5 on her AP Chem Exam, but got a C in her general chem class.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Hahahaha. You are truly delusional and can’t seem to read for crap. Please reference this site:</p>
<p>[Cornell</a> University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“Cornell University - Wikipedia”>Cornell University - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>How is Cornell lesser school? less selective than Duke? For Arts and Science, its admit rate was 14.6% in 2006. Overall, I hear it is around 19-20% this year. (data not out yet). Duke, on the other hand, hovers around 23% acceptance rate with slightly higher SAT average. So what? This year, Duke’s yield was so low that They Literally accepted TONS of people off waitlist. Just on CC, I at least encountered over 20 posters who got of Duke waitlist!!! Oh, regarding the SAT average, Cornell has 7 different colleges and only its CAS and Engineering schools put equal emphasis on SATs as Duke does. Schools like hotel management, architecture, etc. look for other many things, and put lesser weight on SATs. Therefore, this scews the data a bit and boasts up acceptance rate (to lower upper teens or 20s) and drags down SAT average a bit. </p>
<p>So, let’s compare apples to apples. Duke has ONLY CAS and Engineering. YET, its acceptance rate is 23% (should be higher, bc they accepted tons of people off waitlist). Cornell CAS acceptance rate in 2006 (not sure about this yr) was 14.6%. Haha. Guess what? Duke’s selectivity isn’t really that high as you make it out to be. Plus, most Educated Academics regard Cornell higher than Duke (pa score 4.6 v 4.4) Not to mention, I suspect much of laymen prestige around the country for Duke comes from its basketball program. Let’s face it. Who on the random streets would hear Duke and say “omg, that is an amazing school, even better than Cornell and Brown!”. Get real. These people will only be a bit more familiar with Duke only bc of its bball. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Oh, and get your facts straight. Brown is actually even more selective than Duke(by far) and it has “smarter” students than Duke. If you are so intent on asserting this Duke superiority and Duke elitism every effin time, maybe you should do some research about other schools that you wish to bring down. I repeat, Brown’s selectivity is a notch up above Duke.</p>
<p>
confirms my earlier comment…</p>
<p>rd:</p>
<p>yes, the premed sciences are tough at any college, bcos they want to weed out the premeds early. But, to the overall point, perhaps all the Cs are in the sciences, and perhap intro econ.</p>
<p>WashPost June 5, 2005:
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Wow. I thought you were an asian yourself given your screen name. And, Yet, u still don’t know the sheer fact that Duke is a no-name school in Asia? I lived in Asia for a significant chunk of time, and I know my area well. In Japan and Korea, Duke is not a well known school. Cornell, Upenn, Columbia, and in some cases Brown and U of chicago are pretty well known, however. If you don’t believe me, may be u should do student exchange program and go over to Japan/Korea, and attempt to show off your Duke affiliation. I can gurantee that no body will know wth ur talking about when u say “look, I go to Duke University, the best U.S. university after HYPSM”. Actually, people will then respond to you in a way like this: “if you are so smart, why did u not go to UC Berkeley, Cornell, Penn, Brown, or U of Chicago then?”</p>
<p>For you to assert that Duke is as well known as Cornell or UPenn on the basis of its programs with some Asian universities is really absurd. You should know better, as a superior Duke student, not to assume that Duke’s some program in Asia won’t make its rep and name stand out among others. Sadly for you, the simple fact is that almost nobody has ever heard of Duke in this region. (China, Japan, Korea, etc.) </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My god. You are really full, full of loads of BS every time. </p>
<p>look: <a href=“http://admissions.cornell.edu/downloads/EnteringClassProfile.pdf[/url]”>http://admissions.cornell.edu/downloads/EnteringClassProfile.pdf</a></p>
<p>60% of ALL Cornell class sizes are between 2-19 students. 74% of all Cornell classes are between 20-29 students. ONLY 15% of all Cornell classes are over 50 students. Please, don’t come up with another BS and say that Duke has better classroom size, etc. I am afraid you are confusing the entire student body’s size with the average classroom size. The two are different and do not necessarily imply correlation.</p>
<p>I would venture to say that Michigan has a better name recognition in Asia than Duke as well. Not stating this from any personal observations, but from what i’ve read on CC.</p>
<p>Bluebayou, that article is from 2005. Last year, when the Assistant Director of Admissions visited my magnet school, she told me Duke has transitioned to a stage of grade deflation, particularly in the sciences. (She said this in response to my question of what the average freshman year GPA is.)</p>
<p>rd:</p>
<p>do you really believe academia changes that fast??? Did the rep actually answer your question? What is the gpa of last year’s graduating class, for example? (It used to be just under a 3.4.) What was the grade distribution of your friend’s D’s frosh chem class?</p>
<p>Perhaps the Greeks are smarter than the average Dukie, but mean gpa of 3.3-3.4 last spring.</p>
<p><a href=“http://greek.studentaffairs.duke.edu/PDFs/Grade_Analysis%20Spring%202007%20Final.pdf[/url]”>http://greek.studentaffairs.duke.edu/PDFs/Grade_Analysis%20Spring%202007%20Final.pdf</a></p>
<p>Honestly, I’m not going to take the time to research all that; I don’t go to Duke so I don’t really have the motivation to defend it to that level. My point was to rebut one poster’s statement that Duke students get their “butts wiped” for them. I don’t believe that Duke is any easier than Michigan; it may well be the other way around. However, this is just an opinion. </p>
<p>My gosh I feel like I’m being interrogated under hot lights.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Which Cornell student did you talk to? No one on this board boasts about Cornell’s Ivy League status. It is YOU that tries to vaunt Duke’s position all the time. Students at Duke don’t care about prestige? I think you are the biggest prestige whore I ever saw on this board so far. You and some other Duke posters constantly jab at other fine schools in almost every single thread that has to do with Duke v other school. You are accusing Cornell people of this so called ivy leauge pride, yet, read some of your very own posts in this thread. Oh, the irony!</p>
<p>^^
Actually, I think most Cornellians would be perfectly happy if Cornell were able to be judged on its own merits like Northwestern is, not in constant comparison to schools with vastly different missions.</p>
<p>Hawkette - inquiring minds still want to know where you went to college. We know it wasn’t Duke. Where was it?</p>
<p>Even if Duke and Cornell were the same academically, I bet Duke kids have better blood pressure and have had more fun based purely on social life and what I’ve heard about each school. Academically, I think if I wanted to go to graduate school for engineering I would choose Cornell. However, I chose Duke as someone interested in econ/finance, and made the right choice. </p>
<p>Because watching top 10 basketball from 50 feet away > throwing fish on the ice at hockey games.</p>
<p>Cornell PA 4.6
Michigan PA 4.5
Duke PA 4.4</p>
<p>“In your world, what jobs are all these poly sci and art history majors getting or is everyone going onto grad school?”</p>
<p>Uh … jobs in government? Jobs with art museums? Let’s see - from my time at NU, I know of a linguistics major who wound up working for Al Gore, a theater major who now owns her own yoga studio, a poli sci major who worked for Madeline Albright in the state dept, a communications disorders major who teaches at a local college, a psychology major who does research at UVA, an art history major who works at the Art Institute of Chicago, another art history major who owns an art consulting firm … it’s like there’s this whole other world out there beyond i-banking! </p>
<p>So, why, again, are the % or the raw #'s of seniors at a college who go into i-banking being touted as something to show that one school is “better” than another? </p>
<p>Clue: If 10% of School A’s seniors go into i-banking at the big name firms, and only 1% of School B’s seniors go into i-banking at the big name firms, what does that tell you about the quality of education at School A vs School B? Nothing. Not a damn thing. So stop acting as though it does; stop acting as though i-banking is some Superior Career.</p>
<p>“Actually, I think most Cornellians would be perfectly happy if Cornell were able to be judged on its own merits like Northwestern is, not in constant comparison to schools with vastly different missions.”</p>
<p>That’s what’s nice about NU, IMO. Because we have some specialty programs … journalism, theater, music … we aren’t an “equal comparison” to a lot of other elite schools. (Just like Cornell has specialty programs in hotel and agriculture.) Which is just fine!</p>
<p>“a quick check on Bloomberg profiles (which is going to be heavily weighted in favor of UMichigan because of its size and larger prominence of MBA school) still only shows 23 from UMichigan vs 20 from Duke, 40 from Georgetown, 37 from Cornell, 20 from Brown, 14 from UVA, 14 from BC.”</p>
<p>How does Michigan have fewer people at Goldman Sachs than Duke or Brown? Isn’t 23 more than 20? And what does Michigan’s MBA program have to do with anything? Don’t Duke and UVa also have prominent MBA programs? Besides, if you look at the Ross link I provided above, Goldman Sachs recruits far more undergrads than MBAs at Ross. This year, they hired 9 BBAs and 2 MBAs.</p>
<p>“I notice you don’t offer any other schools’ employment figures as a comparison. Bloomberg profiles is a step in the right direction and shows that UMichigan has less at Goldman than Brown, Duke, Georgetown, Cornell (all schools I’m guessing you think UMichigan is above in your top 10 statement), but this approach is inexact and painfully tedious to specifically decipher actual numbers, but should still be a representaive sample of relative differences between schools.”</p>
<p>I never said Wall Street BB firms recruited more heavily at Michigan than at Brown, Cornell, Duke, Georgetown or UVa. It is you who claimed it isn’t as highly recruited. In fact, I have always said that those schools, along with Dartmouth, Harvard, MIT, NYU, Northwestern, Penn, Princeton, Stanford, Yale and a couple of LACs are the most heavily recruited by Wall Street BB firms. You can easily look at previous posts about IBanking recruitment and you will see that. Clearly, Harvard, Penn and Princeton are the most heavily recruited schools. After those three, it is hard to differentiate between the next 10-15 schools. I have always said as much.</p>