Duke v. UMich

[beefs]

<p>from another thread</p>

<p>

@evil asian dictator

There’s no need to feel inferior beefs. I’m sure you are looking forward to those fun Cranium and Scrabble gaming sessions on the weekends at Chicago.

</p>

<p>from this thread</p>

<p>

@evil asian dictator

Hawkette and I aren’t being obnoxious. We are simply stating the facts. Duke’s student body is much-less “obnoxious” than Cornell’s, which CONSTANTLY tries to vaunt its position in the Ivy League. The student bodies at Duke or Stanford could care less about prestige. We know we are getting a wonderful education, going to a good college and are going to make a difference in the world when we graduate from college.

</p>

<p>LOL dude you are so inconsistent. I’m glad I know other Dukies or your character would be my first impression of the university.</p>

[K9Leader]

<p>Evil Asian Dictator responded to the suggestion that he suffers from a classic inferiority complex with the following:</p>

<p>

HAHAHA are you delusional? The only schools I would pick over Duke are HYP, Wharton and Stanford. Luckily you’re not a psychology, because your psychoanalysis couldn’t be further from the truth. Duke freshman this year had the the opportunity to listen to Jane Goodall, Karl Rove, Chelsea Clinton and Tucker Max(very entertaining ) speak. 3 of my classes this year had LESS THAN 10 PEOPLE. Friends I know from a special freshman Duke learning experience called FOCUS are traveling to Russia with faculty this summer to complement their classroom learning. Some of my friends have intenships to do biology research with National Institutes of Health this summer and another is going to South Africa this summer to join the fight against AIDS/Malaria as part of DukeEngage. A couple of friends I know are interning with Merill Lynch and Citigroup. Two other freshman friends of mine are studying at the London School of Economics this summer. Another friend of mine is doing an internship in Washington for the Genocide Intervention Network and a couple of others have been doing research with their Marine Biology professors at the Duke Beaufort Marine Lab this year and they will continue over the summer.</p>

<p>Clearly, I have an “inferiority complex”. I’m so jealous that Michigan students go to a less prestigious school, get a worse education, attend larger classes, go to sucky parties, deal with terrible weather, drink cheap alcohol, have terrible tailgates, aren’t very social, don’t have opportunities to make a difference in the world, aren’t stretching themselves intellectually, have academically weaker classmates and have a basketball team that couldn’t even make the NIT this year and are working at their local restaurants and fast food chains this summer. Clearly, me and my Duke friends are very “bitter” about all this.

</p>

<p>Classic non-denial denial. Act outraged, but never actually address the issue by, instead, reeling off counterpoints that have nothing to do with with what you are refuting. Kid, many other colleges have notable people come to speak on their campuses, have small classes, have study abroad and service programs, have internships and coops, and have research opportunities. These things are not unique to Duke, yet your blinders have you convinced (well, actually you aren’t convinced but you are trying very, very hard to convince yourself) that only the Magical Land of Duke could possibly offer these things. </p>

<p>I don’t know about any of your fellow Duke classmates, but, yes, you are clearly very bitter about a lot of things. I hear that many top universities have comprehensive mental health counseling programs – I’m sure that there is some sort of news magazine ranking that will tell you what your opinion is on which ones are the best. Too bad Duke doesn’t have anything like that, because you really need some help.</p>

[gellino]

<p>“Clue: If 10% of School A’s seniors go into i-banking at the big name firms, and only 1% of School B’s seniors go into i-banking at the big name firms, what does that tell you about the quality of education at School A vs School B? Nothing. Not a damn thing. So stop acting as though it does; stop acting as though i-banking is some Superior Career.”</p>

<p>How someone can sit back and pretend that IB isn’t a highly sought after career to which many aspire is beyond me. You’re acting as if the whole basis of comparison of one school vs another is this nebulous ‘quality of education’ concept and that there are no other considerations. What does quality of education at one school vs another have to do with owning a yoga studio?</p>

<p>Alex, the Bloomberg profiles include either BA or MBA, so the 23 from UMichigan includes both, while obviously Brown is all BA and Duke is more likely BA than MBA; especially on a % of class basis. So, I wasn’t about to sift through all the profiles to see how many were BA vs MBA in the cases of Duke, UMichigan, UVA. </p>

<p>“Don’t Duke and UVa also have prominent MBA programs?” </p>

<p>As you have stated many times on here and I actually agree with you UMichigan MBA is more highly regarded than UVA or Duke.</p>

[Alexandre]

<p>Gellino, like I said, GS does not recruit many MBAs at Michigan. I am not sure why that is, but most of GS’ recruiting on the Michigan campus is for entry level Analyst positions. </p>

<p>At any rate, I reiterate that I have never claimed that Michigan is more heavily recruited than any of the schools I listed above. It is as heavily recruited as most, but not more highly recruited.</p>

[gellino]

<p>Alex, you said that UMichigan was top 10 in IB recruiting. From what I have seen in my experience and what is conformed on Bloomberg, at least Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth, Duke, Brown, Georgetown, Penn, Columbia, Stanford, Cornell have more grads especially on a % of class basis. I wouldn’t dispute that UMichigan is among the next 10 schools, just not the top 10.</p>

[Alexandre]

<p>Gellino, like I said, GS does not recruit many MBAs at Michigan. I am not sure why that is, but most of GS’ recruiting on the Michigan campus is for entry level Analyst positions. And historically, BB IBanks recruited undergrads much more heavily at the college of LSA than at the Michigan Business school. In the last 5 years, GS has recruited 38 Ross BBAs and fewer than 19 Ross MBAs.</p>

<p>Also, last year’s 54+ BBAs recruited by Wall Street BB IBanks from Ross was the lowest in three years. In 2006, BB firms recruited more than 68 and in 2005, they recruited more than 61.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2007.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2007.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2006.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2006.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2005.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2005.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2004.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2004.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2003.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2003.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2002.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2002.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Note that BB IBanks did not do much on-campus recruitment in 2001-2004 because the Economy was in very poor shape. </p>

<p>At any rate, I reiterate that I have never claimed that Michigan is more heavily recruited than any of the schools you listed above. But it is as heavily recruited. And you know by now that I always include more than 10 schools in any top 10 ranking because rankings of this sort aren’t scientific. There isn’t a clear difference between #5 and #20, let alone between #10 and #11. Anyway, unless you can show hard numbers as I have, it is pointless to continue this debate. It is your word vs my numbers. Apples to oranges as it were.</p>

[collide]

<p>Alexandre, just wondering, but why is it that the BB IBanks recruit more in LSA than Ross?</p>

[Alexandre]

<p>And Gellino, the Bloomberg stat is VERY limited. Volunteer information from one company hardly makes it a valid “confirmation”. </p>

<p>Furthermore, as a percentage of students entering the field of IBanking, schools like Cal, Chicago, Michigan, NU, Stanford etc… won’t be able to compete with schools like Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, Georgetown etc… because not as many students in those schools seek out careers in IBanking. But I would be willing to bet that the percentage of successful applicants to IBanks from all of those schools is roughly identical.</p>

[Alexandre]

<p>“Alexandre, just wondering, but why is it that the BB IBanks recruit more in LSA than Ross?”</p>

<p>Collide, that is no longer the case. It was the case historically, but today, from what I have seen, IBanks recruit as heavily at Ross as they do at LSA, and since Ross only has 350 students per graduating class, the odds of landing a job with a BB IBank out of Ross are excellent.</p>

[stupidme]

<p>what is this bloomberg profile everyone’s talking about?</p>

[UCBChemEGrad]

<p>^ You actually need a Bloomberg terminal to see it…;)</p>

[Alexandre]

<p>Also, I assume that Bloomberg profiles, like Linkedin and Facebook, are entirely populated by individuals, not the institution. As such, these websites are not an accurate reflection of a university’s representation at a particular company.</p>

[system]

<p>There are a lot of Michigan engineers (post-Masters) or even engineers after MBA in both banking and consulting in my personal experience, as well as undergrads.</p>

[Alexandre]

<p>UBS and BCG each recruit anywhere from 5-10 undergrads from the Michigan college of Engineering annually. All of the other players (Bain, Booz Allen, McKenzie, MMC, Citigroup, Credit Suisse, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley etc…) recruit undergrads from the college of Engineering. Unfortunately, the college of Engineering does not publish exact figures. It does, however, list all of those companies as official, on-campus recruiters.</p>

[evil_asian_dictator]

<p>Yeah, if you’re dead-set on i-banking/consulting, Michigan is a good option and lags only a little behind Duke and Cornell in that regard. However, I do maintain that there is a difference between these three school in the quality of the undergraduate experience overall.</p>

[rjkofnovi]

<p>Fine EAD. Now please give it a rest and let this thread die!</p>

[evil_asian_dictator]

<p>

@patlees88

This year, Duke’s yield was so low that They Literally accepted TONS of people off waitlist. Just on CC, I at least encountered over 20 posters who got of Duke waitlist!!! Oh, regarding the SAT average, Cornell has 7 different colleges and only its CAS and Engineering schools put equal emphasis on SATs as Duke does. Schools like hotel management, architecture, etc. look for other many things, and put lesser weight on SATs. Therefore, this scews the data a bit and boasts up acceptance rate (to lower upper teens or 20s) and drags down SAT average a bit.

Haha, you seem really desperate. Duke’s yield figures haven’t been released for this year and it is still probably much better than Cornell’s like it has always been. Just because you’ve seen some people on these boards who have gotten off the waitlist, that doesn’t mean “that they literally accepted TONS of people off the waitlist”. It’s fine that Cornell has multiple schools but that doesn’t mean it’s right for you to think that aspiring farmers and hotel managers should have lower SAT scores than a pre-med or pre-law student. Even if they don’t empasize the SATs that much, Cornell’s vocational school should still attract kids with high test scores but clearly these admitted student aren’t enrolling. It’s Cornell’s own problem if it’s a quasi-state school that has to cater to dozens of vocations and that lowers its selectivity/student body strength.</p>

[rjkofnovi]

<p>…and it continues. :-(</p>

[evil_asian_dictator]

<p>

@patlees88

Wow. I thought you were an asian yourself given your screen name. And, Yet, u still don’t know the sheer fact that Duke is a no-name school in Asia? I lived in Asia for a significant chunk of time, and I know my area well. In Japan and Korea, Duke is not a well known school. Cornell, Upenn, Columbia, and in some cases Brown and U of chicago are pretty well known, however. If you don’t believe me, may be u should do student exchange program and go over to Japan/Korea, and attempt to show off your Duke affiliation. I can gurantee that no body will know wth ur talking about when u say “look, I go to Duke University, the best U.S. university after HYPSM”. Actually, people will then respond to you in a way like this: “if you are so smart, why did u not go to UC Berkeley, Cornell, Penn, Brown, or U of Chicago then?”</p>

<p>For you to assert that Duke is as well known as Cornell or UPenn on the basis of its programs with some Asian universities is really absurd. You should know better, as a superior Duke student, not to assume that Duke’s some program in Asia won’t make its rep and name stand out among others. Sadly for you, the simple fact is that almost nobody has ever heard of Duke in this region. (China, Japan, Korea, etc.)

Are you really this ignorant? How can an elite university like Duke be a “no-name” school in such a large region of the world like Asia, especially when you consider that almost a 1/3 of Duke’s freshman class this year was of Asian descent. I will fully concede that Berkeley has much more international recognition than Duke and that Duke and Cornell are probably equally regarded in Asia. But, are you serious about schools like UChicago and Brown? VERY FEW educated people in THIS COUNTRY have even heard of the University of Chicago. It has always been regarded as a good school but it only soared into prominence over the last couple of years. It’s good for Economics but Asians don’t care about Econ. Asians only care about Engineering and Medicine. Duke is extremely well-known in Asia because its a great school for pre-meds and its BME program is top-notch. Cornell is also known in Asia because of its excellence in engineering. i guarantee you most educated people in Asia haven’t heard of Brown simply because it’s one of the least-known Ivy League schools and doesn’t have a large concentration of Asians. Anyway, I’m sure your limited experience in Asia can be used to assess the general prominence of these schools in the region LOL.</p>

[CayugaRed2005]

<p>

It’s Cornell’s own problem if it’s a quasi-state school that has to cater to dozens of vocations and that lowers its selectivity/student body strength.

</p>

<p>You would call it a problem. But most people consider it a strength. Next time you bite out of an apple or ride on the New York City subway system or enroll a child in a pre-school problem, you will have one of those vocational Cornellians to thank.</p>