<p>“I learn just as much, if not more, by interacting with the diverse and talented kids in my residential community. It certainly enhances my learning experience and I love how I can have intellectual conversations with almost anyone I meet at college. I’m not just confined to a group of people in a “Honors College”. I am able to give the benefit of the doubt to everyone I meet and assume that they are intelligent.”</p>
<p>You are in for a rude awakening when you hit the real world and find out that there are people who didn’t go to elite schools who have something to offer! In fact, you can learn from pretty much anyone – if you open your eyes and ears to it. You’re going to have a very rough time if you want people to have passed certain intellectual qualifications before you deem them as interesting or worthwhile to learn from. I learn from everyone I come in contact with, whether it’s someone with a hs education who spent their time serving our country or someone with a PhD in astrophysics. And you will not be well served in the real world if you insist on looking for their college stamp-of-smartness before hearing what they have to say. You strike me as the kind of kid who will ignore the secretaries at work because they’re “only secretaries.”</p>
<p>(Sorry, hit send too soon) Luckily, though, yk something? Even the vaunted i-bankers of the world will, at one point, see right through it. The arrogance of treating people as though they only have something unique to offer in this world if they’ve been properly vetted through one of the top 20 schools in the land will be easily found out. YK something? I acted the way you’re acting when I was fresh out of NU, and I’m sorry for it, and ashamed that I did.</p>
<p>I’m glad you took back your assertion about U of Chicago because I was on the ground flailing about and gasping like a flounder out of water in sheer disbelief on that one.</p>
<p>“Frankly, a school dominated by a bunch of IB wannabes sounds like a horrible place – and I’m someone who turned down Wharton, LOL.”</p>
<p>If you’re so anti-business, what were you doing applying to Wharton UG in the first place? Even over half of IB analysts come from non UG business majors, but once presented with the conundrum of getting a job seek out tangible options.</p>
<p>According to collegedata, Duke had an Asian background of 16.9% compared to 13.7% for Brown, so I find it unlikely this figure would double in one year or that this spread is support of why Duke would be known in Asia and Brown not. Not to mention that these stats all probably are way more comprised of 2nd and 3rd generation students whose stance would be more of an American perspective to the extent they are at all different anyway.</p>
<p>As someone who could have potentially attended either Michigan or Duke last year (and who has a brother who attended Michigan and a family that lives in Michigan), I do believe that overall, Duke is stronger than Michigan to some extent (given smaller classes, more undergraduate focus, and grad school placement rates). However, I think the “extent” is very debatable, and the difference “may” not be worth the difference in price of an in-state Michigan education versus a Duke education.</p>
<p>Michigan does have a broader range in student abilities than Duke does. From attending the Duke admitted student days (Blue Devil Days), I noticed that everyone I met was high ability. At Michigan, I do know many extremely intelligent students (many of whom I would call geniuses and are MUCH smarter than I am). However, there are also many students (who I know personally), who are not particularly impressive, neither intellectually nor extracurricularly. </p>
<p>Both are really excellent institutions and you certainly can’t go wrong with either. It really depends on what you’re looking for.</p>
You “noticed” that everyone you met was high ability…when you first meet people, especially in a setting like a college orientation, most are posturing to make themselves look better…it’s the nature of the occassion.</p>
<p>
“who I know personally”…there is a difference between “knowing personally” someone vs. giving just a first impression. Once you get to know people, you may not be as impressed.</p>
<p>I have always thought of Duke and Stanford as the only two schools in the world that are legitimately more well-rounded than Michigan. I have a great amount of respect for Michigan and can even see possible rationales for choosing UMich over HYPS, but I just don’t see any legitimate reason why a well-informed person would choose UMich over Duke or Stanford besides the cost difference if in-state. Unlike most of the Ivies, Michigan offers a fun social scene, big-time athletics and incredible school spirit. Guess what? Duke and Stanford have all that PLUS the added educational benefits.</p>
<p>Michigan supporters who don’t know much about Duke or Stanford can make silly arguments like Durham is dangerous and Palo Alto is boring and neither are “true” college towns, but these people most likely haven’t spent much time at either of these places. Both Palo Alto and Durham have great restaurants, clubs and musical venues.</p>
<p>As the private schools continue improving their financial aid programs, hopefully more Michigan in-staters will start broadening their horizons and attend some out-of-state private schools that will offer more undergraduate academic resources than the public schools in the state.</p>
Broader only in the sense that it has a larger student population with a larger variety of majors. If Duke expanded to UMich’s size, student SAT averages/“ability” would become similar. </p>
<p>IMO, Duke is more homogenized and has a larger pre-professional focus…you either have the pre-med/biomedical engineers or the Wall St./investment banking types.</p>
What world do you live in? Most people posture themselves to look WORSE intellectually in orientation events because they want to come off as amiable and “normal” to their new peers. Most people just bring up normal conversation topics like sports, relevant high school remarks(Where are you from? Do you know a kid named Joe Schmoe who graduated from your HS last year?), hobbies, pop culture, etc. It’s not like kids are bringing up their high school accomplishments and trying to start intense political debates with people they just met. You only get into serious intellectual conversations with people once you are generally comfortable in their presence.</p>
Too bad that’s not going to happen in the forseeable future. That’s like saying if Duke had a sudden increase in the quality of its student body and faculty, then its academic reputations would be on par with Harvard’s. DUH! What’s your point? No one’s denying that its size is UMich’s biggest pitfall.</p>
<p>size is a positive for michigan, that’s why it has highly ranked programs across the board. some fields like engineering, the ivies will never do well in, because they simply don’t put enough money into it, the engineering facilities, equipments are very expensive to buy and maintain. Obviously Cornell and Princeton are exceptions, because they have some size in their engineering departments. </p>
<p>I’ll give you one example, the Ford nuclear reactor at Michigan on north campus, was a valuable learning tool for engineering students. </p>
<p>If you walk into Civil Engineering side of GG Brown building, you’ll see the structural engineering lab, which looks like this:</p>
<p>keefer, the man on the right in the picture at the bottom is my uncle! LOL! Antoine Naaman, professor of Civil Engineering. He’s a very nice guy. Actually, if you clink under “structures faculty”, he is the guy at the top right of the page.</p>
<p>I can recognize Tony a mile away! hehe! That picture must have been taken after 1983 because that’s when he joined the faculty at the University of Michigan. Besides, I don’t think GG Brown was completed until the late 70s or even the early 80s.</p>
<p>“Unlike most of the Ivies, Michigan offers a fun social scene”</p>
<p>By what objective measure does UMichigan have a more fun social scene than Princeton, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell?</p>
<p>“IMO, Duke is more homogenized and has a larger pre-professional focus…you either have the pre-med/biomedical engineers or the Wall St./investment banking types.”</p>
<p>I was in a very similar situation two years ago (not waitlist, but had sent my deposit to Michigan in-state in November and got in to Duke normal decision) and chose to go to Duke. Mechanical engineering, not BME, which would make Michigan even more appealing compared to Duke. My $0.02:</p>
<p>I love Michigan. I have many friends there and visit often. I do not regret going to Duke one bit. Admittedly, I haven’t read much of this thread (I just stumbled on it searching something else) but here are some personal opinions that might help someone in the future:</p>
<p>The overall academic atmosphere at Duke is much more intense. Granted, I haven’t taken classes at Michigan; this is purely comparing my experiences to what I hear from my peers in Ann Arbor. When I say intense, I do not mean it in a negative way. Co-operation is key (and usually essential to success).</p>
<p>Michigan has a better party scene, unless you’re interested in really selective greek stuff. That said, you can still have tons of fun at Duke. Durham is no Ann Arbor, but Chapel Hill is close.</p>
<p>I firmly believe that Duke’s engineering program is better than the rankings suggest. An unusually large proportion of Pratt grads end up working for Goldman or McKinsey or something like that, so they aren’t out in the engineering community promoting their alma mater’s reputation. We have great facilities and the classes are incredibly competitive. It is definitely more theoretical than other engineering programs, so finding a way to obtain more hands-on experience is helpful. Michigan obviously has a wonderful reputation and a very highly ranked engineering school as well.</p>
<p>At Duke, engineers are more than just engineers. I think around half of Pratt kids study abroad, while the national average for engineers is well below 10%. Many engineers at Duke are double-majoring in another art or science. I’m currently in the middle of an engineering internship with a medical component design company, and quite a few of the other engineering interns from other schools seem rather one-dimensional. That’s a rarity at Duke.</p>
<p>These are just my experiences, they seemed pretty relevant. To anyone making this decision in the future: you’ll likely be happy wherever you go. I chose Duke, and haven’t looked back.</p>