<p>No I agree. I’m just explaining the reality. Its too bad some of the best undergrad experiences are overlooked in these places. Their loss I guess.</p>
<p>I swear this board is 80% Asian…</p>
<p>But what’s so funny about it, is that they think that the rest of us should care “what Asians think”! It doesn’t speak too well for their logical thinking skills if they think that the average American going to an elite school needs to spend any time whatsoever worrying about “what Asians think.”</p>
<p>Nooooo Pizzagirl, you totally didn’t understand the sarcasm in my post. I was just trying to illustrate a point that someone’s SAT scores shouldn’t be correlated with his/her interests/career path at the elite schools. Harvard has a wide variety of majors from Classics to Physics and I think you would be hard-pressed to find a sizeable difference in median SAT scores among the two tests. This is because the SAT is an exam that measures critical thinking and anlaytical ability, some things that intelligent individuals should possess regardless of their vocational interests.</p>
<p>Obviously the SAT has its flaws, but its the best piece of objective data we have to use when comparing the strength of the student bodies at different schools.</p>
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<p>Sure does, but it’s all about Coach K and March Madness, and absolutely zero with academics (again, for the layman). Any guesses on the SAT scores of the b’ball team?</p>
<p>“Obviously the SAT has its flaws, but its the best piece of objective data we have to use when comparing the strength of the student bodies at different schools.”</p>
<p>Right. Is strength of the student bodies the same as quality of the education? Because I would say that Michigan offers a high quality education even though the strength of the overall student body may be less than Duke (and other top elites) because of Michigan’s mandate to educate the state. In which case, does it really matter?</p>
<p>Average SAT score for basketball players at Duke is a little bit under 1000, if I remember what I read a few days ago correctly.</p>
<p>“It’s Cornell’s own problem if it’s a quasi-state school that has to cater to dozens of vocations and that lowers its selectivity/student body strength.”</p>
<p>“Catering to dozens of vocations” makes the student body more INTERESTING than if they’re all i-banking Wall St wannabes.</p>
<p>that’s really the root of EAD’s problems. I think he doesn’t realize that there are vocations that don’t give you SAT questions on interview day. Maybe that’s the environment at Duke, everybody is gunning for the few IB/Consulting jobs?</p>
<p>No, the majority of Duke students aren’t interested in IB/Consulting. A larger majority wants to work in think tanks/non-profit organizations or go to law/medical school. I must say though, I haven’t met that many prospective farmers or hotel workers here. I think Cornell enrolls more of those kinds of people.</p>
<p>What’s the average SAT score for Michigan football and ice hockey players? Probably around the same or a little less I assume.</p>
<p>“Probably around the same or a little less I assume.”</p>
<p>umm… of course even michigan football players must score less than Duke’s on the SAT…</p>
<p>I only knew of one Michigan football player personally, and he had a 1420 on his SAT, have we really gotten to the point of comparing SAT scores between division 1 recruits?</p>
<p>I just thought that the jab at the SAT scores of Duke bball players was uncalled for.</p>
<p>One of Michigan’s top freshmen from last year and first round NHL draft pick (Max Pacioretty) had the academics to get into Ivy League schools. It’s generally assumed that this year’s Hobey Baker winner (Nathan Gerbe) didn’t go to Michigan largely because he didn’t have the academics to cut it at Michigan. The hockey team’s APR this season was 988 out of 1000, which is in the 80th-90th percentile both among all sports and just within hockey, and actually one of better U of M teams. Our top defensemen and team captain (Mark Mitera) could’ve left school early for the NHL after any one of the his seasons so far, but he’s serious about finishing his degree in biophysics. One of the players who was a local and a walk-on to the team managed to make it into the business school (which is not too shabby for any student, let alone a walk-on). Jack Johnson (3rd over pick in his NHL draft) left after his sophomore year for the NHL, and played the last few games for the Kings. He asked his professors if he could work on his essays while he was finishing the season in Los Angeles, and come back for the last week of class so he could finish the semester and continue his college education on the west coast. One of our two-time national championship winners (96,98) is now a neurosurgeon here at U of M. Sure, not all of the players have accolades like that, but quite frankly it’s insulting that you’re trying to group them with the Michigan football team or Duke’s basketball team.</p>
<p>Of course, this was just another one of your “assumptions”, so it makes sense that you had no clue what you were talking about.</p>
<p>Hobey baker went to Kevin Porter…</p>
<p>I’ll note that college hockey is a bit self-selecting in terms of players, as typically only players who are seeking a college degree play in the NCAA. Penty kick around the Canadian and American junior leagues until their early 20s hoping to be drafted and called up to the minors. Almost all of the college players at top programs (Michigan, Notre Dame, BC, BU, Colorado College, and Cornell in good years) are there because they find some value in getting a degree.</p>
<p>It’s not like it’s the NFL where you need to play college in order to get drafter up to the big leagues.</p>
<p>One of the things that makes college hockey special.</p>
<p>Yeah, I was a little ****ed then, not thinking straight. Gerbe got Hobey Hattrick and the National Championship (along with tournament MVP, IIRC).</p>
<p>"No, the majority of Duke students aren’t interested in IB/Consulting. "</p>
<p>So, then, why is Duke’s placement into IB/Consulting trotted out as “evidence” that it’s “better” than some other place? </p>
<p>Do most Duke students wind up getting where they want to go? Yes. And the same can be said of any of the top schools in the nation. </p>
<p>" I must say though, I haven’t met that many prospective farmers or hotel workers here. I think Cornell enrolls more of those kinds of people."</p>
<p>Yes, one might think so. Presumably you were interested in being in a more diverse environment from that standpoint since you applied to Cornell, unless you weren’t aware that it had ag, hotel, etc. </p>
<p>Do yourself a favor, will you, EAD? Check the Duke alumni magazine out. Undoubtedly it will have blurbs / updates as to what the alumni from each year are doing these days. I think it will be quite opening to you that Duke alumni, just like alumni of any other top school, do a whole host of / wide range of things after their Duke years. I know it’s always fun when I see my NU alumni magazine and think, hmm, I knew that person, and now look what he / she is doing. And it’s pretty darn rare that it’s classic boring climb-the-ladder-on-Wall-Street. When you’re older, you’ll understand that that’s not the meaning of life.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl,</p>
<p>I always have agreed with pretty much everything you have said so I don’t even know why we’re arguing. The discussion here has nothing to do with IB placement although somehow the thread shifted into that direction. It has more to do with the fact that Duke and Michigan are not academic peers by any measure besides faculty strength at the undergraduate level. I completely agree with you that it’s important for people in any school to pursue a wide variety of endeavors and certainly both Michigan and Duke grads do that.</p>
<p>However, college just isn’t about prepping you for a career, whatever it ends up being. Most people don’t even know what they want to do with their lives when they come to college. Students should come to college with the goals of wanting to enrich themselves intellectually and discover where their true passions lie. It’s easier to do this when you have a more academically qualified/intellectually curious student body, smaller classes, dedicated professors and great academic advisors. Therein lies the difference between schools like NU, Penn, Duke, Georgetown, etc. and Michigan. My hall in college this year had kids who represented over 15 different states, 8 different countries, a dozen different ethnicities and spoke about 20 languages. Among the mix was an Intel semifinalist, a student human rights activist who has been interviewed by CNN and a published short story right. You can find these kinds of students at Michigan but they would be few and far between.</p>
<p>Attending a good college is not all about “getting where you want to go” or “receiving a fine education”. I learn just as much, if not more, by interacting with the diverse and talented kids in my residential community. It certainly enhances my learning experience and I love how I can have intellectual conversations with almost anyone I meet at college. I’m not just confined to a group of people in a “Honors College”. I am able to give the benefit of the doubt to everyone I meet and assume that they are intelligent. If I had done that at UMich, I would have been mistaken given some of the students I know that are going there.</p>
<p>It’s absurd to think that Michigan isn’t diverse. In my hall freshman year, there were about 25-30 people, more than half of them were not from Michigan, even those that were from Michigan weren’t from the the same area. </p>
<p>And I cannot even begin to describe how wrong you are about the students at Michigan. People have mentioned the merits of the honors college, but Michigan’s honors college is really not of the same type as PSU’s, or Oklahoma’s. At those places, the honors college is almost an entirely different school. At Michigan, many people choose to not continue in the honors track after their freshman year, because the honors program really caters to future academics, thus the emphasis on the honors thesis. For example, my roommate was a senior math major, he quit the honors program because he didn’t like the theoretical nature of his honors classes, and he preferred to go into actuarial studies using applications of math. There’s no significant difference between the academic ability of regular UM students and honors students.</p>