<p>bclintonk:</p>
<p>Thank you, thank you, thank you! </p>
<p>I suspect, though, that the “mine is better” guys are off to swing around the branches of another thread and continue to throw feces on each other and other innocent bystanders.</p>
<p>bclintonk, beautiful put!</p>
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<p>sry, but that is not relevant to the WORLD, which, by cc definition, revolves around NYC.</p>
<p>^That’s funny since I’ve always viewed CC to have way more of a CA bias than I’ve ever seen before.</p>
<p>^^anytime the word ‘prestige’ comes up, it’s always followed with placement on Wall Street and placement into H&Y grad schools. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>And “success” is viewed as making the most money … And the “business world” is viewed as exclusively consisting of i-banking …</p>
<p>I-banking is only a concern to a handful of students at the top schools (of which Michigan is certainly one of them). For the vast majority of students who will go into the work force, companies will be impressed with a Duke background, and impressed with a Michigan background. And really, all those backgrounds do is get you in the door, and then it’s up to you.</p>
<p>The type of personality that feels compelled to put down other fine schools and get into a p***ing match as to which one is better is not going to be the type of personality that will be well-liked by recruiters anyway. Someone who comes across as arrogant, know-it-all, I’m-smarter-than-you-because-I-went-to-a-more-selective-school is going to be in for a RUDE awakening when they get into the real world and realize that people of all educational backgrounds have something to offer. And often the brightest person in the office isn’t the grad of the most elite school.</p>
<p>Yeah, I have said before that the Honors College at UMich is definitely close to being on par with Duke. I still think though, if you can get into a school that is stronger overall than your state school, then you should go there if finances aren’t a concern. Even though Michigan Honors students live within the Honors community, they still interact with mostly non-Honors students in their classes so there’s not too much advantage in being in Honors besides the fact that you are with the “smarter” kids. Why not go to a school where everyone is “smart”?</p>
<p>Oh, while we’re on the subject of “the top 15-20% of the student body of a state school is on par with that of a private school”, let me point out that the top fraction of Duke students would absolutely blow away the top fraction of Michigan students in academic accomplishments/intellect. There’s a reason why Duke is competitive annually with Harvard and MIT on the Putnam Math Competition and Michigan is not.;)</p>
<p>EAD,
I think it’s plain you don’t know how the honors college at Michigan works. As a freshman I took all honors classes with other honors college students, and lived in a honors house with other honors college students. Once I moved into my major it was a mix, some special honors classes, some more general classes, but by the end of my undergraduate career most of the students in my classes were graduate students in one of the most prestigious philosophy departments in the world—including some Duke grads who were happy to be there. I repeat, I could not have replicated that educational experience at Duke. I don’t say it’s like that in every field, but it certainly was true in mine.</p>
<p>As for the “top 10–20%,” you miss my point. Duke’s enrollment is about 1/4 the size of Michigan’s, so obviously Duke can be more selective. But based on 25th/75th percentile ACT and SAT scores, the top 25% of Michigan’s entering class is easily in the top half of Duke’s class—and makes up twice as many people. Since offers to join the honors college are made (I believe) only to the top 10% of students admitted to Michigan, it’s likely that the ACT and SAT scores of Michigan honors college students are comparable to the top 25% (or less) of Duke students—though I’d like to see statistical confirmation of that, if anyone’s got it. In short, Michigan honors college students are in a substantially more academically “elite” group, statistically speaking, than the average Dukie. And based on the raw numbers, there must be a lot more “really, really smart people” at Michigan—the top 10% of a class 4 times as large—than at Duke (the top 25% of a much smaller class). </p>
<p>Yes, there are also many students at Michigan who would be in the bottom half of Duke’s class, and another large cohort who would not be admitted to Duke at all. But so what? Unless you think you’re somehow going to be contaminated by proximity to the less academically talented, how does this affect you in the least? If you can take classes from and develop close relationships with faculty who are among the best and brightest in the world, and surround yourself with as many “really, really smart people” as you could ever hope to know, I fail to see how there’s any disadvantage in the fact that the guy living in the house next to yours, or the woman you pass on the Diag on the way to her class, is not in that super-elite category. It’s just a nonsensical claim.</p>
<p>we should really stop entertaining this EAD joke? he’s a duke guy and clearly thinks he’s the king of the world, and we are all beneath him, let him be and end this already, i’d think the OP is sick of all of this by now.</p>
<p>“Unless you think you’re somehow going to be contaminated by proximity to the less academically talented, how does this affect you in the least?”</p>
<p>I think this would affect you when people see not so great candidates attending UMichigan and then associate you with being subpar, forcing you to fight an uphill battle convincing them otherwise. Why not enter into a situation where you are given the initial benefit of the doubt; bclintonk’s particular circumstances notwithstanding.</p>
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LOL! Yeaaaah a college really makes you… Trust me, I bet there are some really stupid people at all top colleges…when you meet those people, “damage” to a school’s rep also ensues…</p>
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How do you “see” “subpar candidates”…do they wear their SAT scores on their shirts? Lame…</p>
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For all intensive purposes, getting accepted normally is essentially the same thing as getting accepted of the waitlist, with the only difference being that you have to wait a little bit longer to hear the good news. In my case, that was two weeks. I WAS SO MISERABLE THOSE TWO WEEKS!! Oh wait, I had already gotten into Duke so I could have cared less about Cornell. I was slightly more concerned about getting off the Wharton waitlist, if you can somehow understand that.</p>
<p>Why would I be a “bitter rejectee” of Cornell if I’m going to a better school? This isn’t logical at all, even if I were to entertain your notion that “being accepted off the waitlist after two weeks” versus “being accepted during regular notification” is somehow negative enough to cause me strong feelings of animosity. I’m sure that my friend who is going to Harvard but didn’t get accepted to Penn CAS is a “bitter rejectee” right?:rolleyes:</p>
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No, they usually can’t hold a intellectual conversation on a meaningful topic like politics, history, culture, etc. without revealing their clear lack of knowledge on the matter.</p>
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Funny…I didn’t think SATs measured knowledge in politics, history, culture, etc…</p>
<p>Equating higher SAT scores with higher intellect is very flawed…</p>
<p>The reason I mention SAT scores is because it’s the only measure by which posters are claiming Duke undergrads have superior intellect…Likely 80% of Duke admits went to a test-prep center for SAT coaching anyways…</p>
<p>EAD, are you at Duke yet, or are you still in high school? You think a student with a 1320 SAT, top 10%, 3.7 GPA from high school can’t hold an intellectual conversation with you? What are you? God? 'cause you scored 8 more questions right on a multiple choice test that tests 8th grade math?</p>
<p>Go Blue!</p>
<p>No need to be rude Nick.</p>
<p>Wow this thread is bringing out all the Umich alumns and students.</p>
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It’s questionable. I think if a student wasn’t motivated enough to do the neccessary preparation required to score well on a “multiple choice test that tests 8th grade math”, then I would have serious concerns about that individual’s commitment to academic success in college. Even if the only reason most Duke students scored so highly on the test was because they “went to a test prep center for SAT coaching”, it still demonstrates an innate drive to succeed among the Duke students and I know that I would be more comfortable around those batch of students because they take their education and career pursuit seriously. It’s much harder to “fall to the wayside” so to speak, at Duke as compared to Michigan. A lot of this has to do with the constant reinforcement by the outstanding, intelligent classmates, dedicated professors and wonderful advisors that Duke students have access to.</p>
<p>“For all intensive purposes…”</p>
<p>I think you ruined any credibility about Duke students being smarter right there…</p>
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High SAT scores are very closely linked to family income (education level)…I had some data from Berkeley that shows this correlation…let me see if I can find it.</p>
<p>An adcom from Amherst was quoted as saying in a PBS documentary that if they only accepted high SAT scoring students, they would have a very wealthy student population…</p>
<p>I would say that since UMich has a larger student population, its wealth likely reflects the larger population it serves…Duke families are likely wealthier (they can more easily afford the higher tuition bills and it’s witnessed in the higher alumni giving rates)…</p>