Duke vs Barrett Honors College (ASU)

Colleges & Universities Duke University
1

I was accepted at Duke ED for the class of 2020 which is what I have been dreaming of for the past 6 months. However, due to my family’s financial situation, I would hypothetically end up with over $20,000 of student loans at the end of four years. As a proposed biophysics/physics major, I will need to go to graduate school (probably in engineering…?) before getting hired into industry. Graduate school may cost a great deal more money, who knows? I would like to go to a top grad school but I’m not sure if accumulating debt at Duke is worth it.
On the other hand, I was accepted at ASU’s Barrett Honors College which has offered me a generous scholarship. Due to my family’s unique financial situation, I would be 100% debt free at the end of four years at Barrett. The honors college claims to send many students to top grad schools and have many opportunities, plus it is seemingly a better choice financially.
I’ve visited both schools and feel that Durham is more desirable than Tempe, but that I could live either place if needed.

Does anyone have advice about which investment is better? Does Duke’s name/prestige carry enough weight to make $20,000 in debt worth it? Is grad school so much more important that I should attend Barrett and save money for later in life?
Thanks in advance.

2

To me, $5k a year is worth it. Plus, you may get some internships that pay well in summer to bring that down.

3

$20,000 in debt, go for it…$200,000 in debt, no way.

With such a small amount of debt I doubt if Duke would release you from your ED agreement.

4

The $20,000 is simply loan debt, but Duke would still be requiring $128,000 over four years as a family contribution. That would leave very little funding for grad school. We wouldn’t need to invest near as much at Barrett, leaving more $$ available for grad work. :confused:

5

Now that is a different story!! So basically your FA is about half? If it is a struggle for your family, that is an easy one. If not, that is harder. You did commit to one of the finest unis in the world…

6

I guess the family contribution for Duke undergrad would be doable, for sure. But, should my focus be more on the quality of the graduate school vs the undergrad? As in, invest in Duke/Berkeley/HYPS for graduate school? However, that’s a good point regarding the ED agreement…my family and I aren’t sure about how ‘binding’ the binding contract is, given the financial aid package that was offered.

7

Not being rude, but I don’t understand why you EDed to Duke if you have issues with paying for it. You had plenty of time to look at what you can pay and look at the Net Price calculator. You seem to take the decision of breaking the ED agreement too lightly.

8

if you do in fact choose ASU, do not plan on applying to Duke for grad or professional school. They may keep your broken agreement on file.

9

5k a year will be well worth it. PhD programs are fully funded and provide stipends. Your odds of getting into a top-tier PhD program are exponentially higher coming out of Duke. Also, you made a commitment and that should count for something in my opinion.

@TomSrOfBoston As well they should.

10

Here’s my logic on this: If you go to the Honors College you will be the cream of the crop for that university. They will allocate funds especially for you and other honors students. If you go to Duke, chances are you’re not gonna be the top 1% of the top 1% (you may be a genius I don’t know). Watch this video for some insight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow1-uj0ToVY

11

ASU has 10x as many undergraduates as Duke does. Duke has an endowment that is roughly 15x larger. Therefore, Duke has 150x more money on a per-capita basis. So the average student at Duke is probably being presented with better opportunities than the best student at ASU.

12

I feel ya, dawg. I know this conundrum well.

Unfortunately, @anxiousenior1 has a point. Schools don’t like candidates committing to ED and not attending–did you and your parents and school counselor have to sign an agreement that you would attend if accepted? In any case, you might just choose to NOT take it. It’s not like Duke can throw you in jail for not choosing to pay $70k a year or whatever your EFC is. There is a moral obligation, a hand-shake agreement of sorts, to go to Duke with the ED. And how you stand on that is your choice. Certainly not the end of the world if you have changed your mind. It happens, everywhere.

I know Barrett very well, and Michael Crow, the President of ASU, is the most sought-after college president for a reason. He and ASU have created the most innovative and uniquely successful school in the country over the last 10 years. Barrett students get those great facilities, personal attention, outstanding living arrangements, first choice in research opportunities and internship/coop interviews. They have all of the Fulbright and Marshall engagement support. @NerdyChica’s logic is flawed–just because an endowment is higher does not logically or actually translate into having better opportunities. And at Barrett, that is certainly true. If you want to boast about endowment dollars, go to University of Texas-Austin or Harvard.

You can’t go wrong with either choice. But the question of your obligation to your commitment on the ED is your own decision. Is what you stand for the same as what you want?

13

ED is a binding agreement that obligates you to attend unless there are hugely extenuating financial circumstances that make it impossible for you to afford. $5k/year in debt is nothing in the large scheme of things. You’ll possibly also change your mind on majors, grad school, and what you want to do after college (perhaps a few times!) during your college career, so you need to factor in what university you think will make you grow more and challenge you regardless of the route you end up taking. Now, if you were making this decision up front and said your parents would be willing to pay a lot more for grad school/house down payment/whatever if you go to ASU, that would certainly be something to consider, but you effectively already made that decision by applying ED to Duke. Don’t back out of your commitment – Duke is a fantastic school and you’ll have a great time while growing as a student and a person, and will have huge opportunities ahead. Good luck.

14

Will your chances of landing a top grad school be easier coming out of Duke or from ASU? This is the decision you need to make.

Most PhD programs in the sciences are funded, so tuition/fees are really not an issue. Masters level programs are a bit different, depending on the field.

15

“I know Barrett very well, and Michael Crow, the President of ASU, is the most sought-after college president for a reason. He and ASU have created the most innovative and uniquely successful school in the country over the last 10 years.”

None of this is verifiable and some of it is laughably absurd. Since when is ASU considered the most innovative and uniquely successful school in the country? That’s a ludicrous assertion.

The fact that you want to go on and get a PhD makes this even more of a no-brainer. You won’t accrue any student debt in graduate school.

16

This is patently false. To address a couple of points: if you have a subsidized student loan, you will not accrue interest in grad school. If the loan is unsubsidized or a private loan, interest accrues always. Most master’s degrees and professional doctoral programs are unfunded, so students will take out loans and accrue student debt. Some PhD programs are fully funded, but even that stipend tapers by year six and year seven (which is normal in the humanities, less so in the sciences) and many will take out loans.

As a Duke junior who also went to a directional state school for a while, the level of critical engagment, reading load, intellectual complexity is higher at Duke than it may consistently be at ASU (because not all of your courses, I’m assuming, will be in the Honor’s College). The level of networking, if that’s important to you, is probably higher at Duke, though ASU will concentrate its resources in Barrett, so it may end up being the same. Research opportunities are broader at Duke-- but more students will also be competing for those research spots. At ASU-Barrett, you may have to put in more work contacting professors/creating research opportunities, but there may be slightly fewer students competing for those spots.

To be honest, Duke (and I presume many similar schools like us) is also a pressure-cooker, so that’s something to consider. ASU will probably have a different feel (even when you’re within the honors college), as it’s a large state flagship, and even with our sports, Duke is a private R1.

The $128k is not just change, and I would consider what that money is worth to you. Look into how FA works for summers and study abroad. Could you afford to study abroad over a semester or summer while at Duke? Participate in institutes/other programs that may cost money?

Depending on the kind of grad school you’re going to, you may need that money for grad school. If you’re looking for a straight PhD in Chem/Biotech/etc., that may be funded. If you’re looking for a master’s in Chem/Biotech/whatnot to work in industry, that may be funded by your company, but are also many times self-funded.

17

If your parents are willing and able to pay for Duke, go there. If not, go to ASU. Work hard so that grad school will be funded.

18

The time for your question was before you applied ED. If you were not sure on finances and wanted to play the field then you should have applied RD. Applying ED is concession of control in return for an edge. You accepted that edge, and presumably read the binding contract you entered into. Now you have benefitted from that edge.

Assuming the online NPC calculator you could have run before applying is close to what Duke offered you then it is not time to play the field but to cancel your other applications as you agreed you would do if accepted ED.

19

^ Absolutely spot on.

20

@ConcertoinD and @NerdyChica: “None of this is verifiable and some of it is laughably absurd. Since when is ASU considered the most innovative and uniquely successful school in the country? That’s a ludicrous assertion.”

You’re right that you can’t verify a description as subjective as “most innovative” and “uniquely successful”. But the following articles/rankings show that it is not unusual for ASU to be described as being innovative and successful. It is neither “laughably absurd” nor a “ludicrous assertion” to make such claims.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/innovative

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704554104575435563989873060

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/12/education/edlife/12edl-12talk.html

http://www.60secondrecap.com/forbes-30-under-30-colleges/: “We found that appearances can be deceiving. We found that Forbes tells of one “30 under 30” honoree’s experience as an undergraduate at Duke, but doesn’t mention Arizona State University undergraduate degrees carried by three of its young stars. (Fun fact: Arizona State, which accepts 89% of its applicants, has more “30 under 30” alumni than The University of Chicago, which boasts an acceptance rate below 9%. Arizona State beats Duke on this score, too. And it beats Dartmouth. And Cornell. And Johns Hopkins. And…you get the idea.)”